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Horses’ Teeth and the Indo-European Homeland

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  • mkelkar2003
    09 Sep 2008 Horses Teeth and the Indo-European Homeland Indo-European, Horses, Ethnography, Language, Archaeology Andrew Lawler describes an interesting
    Message 1 of 61 , Sep 21, 2008
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      "09 Sep 2008
      Horses' Teeth and the Indo-European Homeland
      Indo-European, Horses, Ethnography, Language, Archaeology

      Andrew Lawler describes an interesting approach to linguistic
      archaeology.



      Measuring teeth from dead horses in upstate New York seems an
      unlikely way to get at the truth behind some of the most
      controversial questions about the Old World. But David Anthony, a
      historian and archaeologist at Hartwick College, discovered that by
      comparing the teeth of modern horses with their Eurasian ancestors,
      he could determine where and when the ancient ones were ridden. And
      answering that seemingly arcane question is important if you want to
      explain why nearly half the world today speaks an Indo-European
      language.

      The origin of Indo-European tongues has roiled scholarship since a
      British judge in eighteenth-century Calcutta noticed that Sanskrit
      and English were related. Generations of linguists have labored to
      reconstruct the mother from which sprang dozens of languages spoken
      from Wales to China. Their bitter disputes about who used proto-Indo-
      European, where they lived, and their impact on the budding
      civilizations of Mesopotamia, Iran, and the Indus River Valley are
      legion.

      That contentious debate, says Anthony, has been "alternately dryly
      academic, comically absurd, and brutally political." To advance their
      own goals, Nazi racists, American skinheads, Russian nationalists,
      and Hindu fundamentalists have all latched on to the idea of light-
      skinned and chariot-driving Aryans as bold purveyors of an early Indo-
      European culture, which came to dominate Eurasia. So the search for
      an Indo-European homeland is now the third rail of archaeology and
      linguistics. Anthony compares it to the Lost Dutchman's mine—
      "discovered almost everywhere but confirmed nowhere."


      Read the whole thing."

      "Hindu fundamentalists have all latched on to the idea of light-
      skinned and chariot-driving Aryans as bold purvey"

      Lawler (2008)is wrong about the "Hindu fundmentalist."

      M. Kelkar
    • Patrick Ryan
      There may be a few list-members who may wonder why pre-Pontic PIE *kha ( *bee ) could became the PIE root *ka(:)- but pre-Pontic *ka (*goat ) could not
      Message 61 of 61 , Sep 30, 2008
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        There may be a few list-members who may wonder why pre-Pontic PIE *kha ('*bee') could became the PIE root *ka(:)- but pre-Pontic *ka (*goat') could not (without further compositional elements).
         
        PIE had an almost exceptionless root-restraint against roots with less than two morae.
         
        Pre-Pontic PIE *kha would have theoretically become PIE *kA where *A is the Ablautvokal (*e/*o/*Ø) which has only _one_ mora_.
         
         
        Patrick
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:51 AM
        Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Horses' Asses and the Indo-European Homeland

        A few additional comments just to round things out.
         
        I believe pre-Pontic PIE *kaH- is isolatable as a root with a core meaning of 'goat' (probably [kaH]) <- 'intensely desirous, lusting'..
         
        Patrick
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 6:58 AM
        Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Horses' Asses and the Indo-European Homeland

        Of course, there is also PIE *ka:-, 'desire', identical in PIE form to my postulated *ka:-, '*bee'.
         
        I believe it is the result of compositional reduction from*kaH-.
         
        Does anyone have an idea on how they might be distinguished _formally_?
         
         
        Patrick
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 3:49 AM
        Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Horses' Asses and the Indo-European Homeland

        Two other words that tend to support  *ka(:)-, 'bee', are **ka(:)-i-wo- , 'hive', and *ka(:)-r- , 'wax'.
         
        Patrick
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 2:35 PM
        Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Horses' Asses and the Indo-European Homeland

        The process has been described at least a hundred times on this list and other related lists:
         
        Aspiration [h] becomes voiced [H] which is assimilated to the quality of the following vowel: [H] + [a] -> [a]  + [a]  -> [aa].
         
        Patrick
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 1:26 PM
        Subject: [tied] Re: Horses' Asses and the Indo-European Homeland

        --- In cybalist@yahoogroup s.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@ ...>
        wrote:
        >
        > The ultimate root involved in these words is one of the more
        > interesting roots in PIE.
        >
        > In its pre-Pontic PIE form it was *kha-, which became *ka(:)-
        > in post-Pontic PIE; its core meaning is 'bee'.

        It's amazing how you use such a declarative tone, as if
        pre-Pontic PIE were established reality, or the meaning
        'bee' anything but your own poorly informed speculation.

        Why would aspiration in _front_ of a vowel ever lead to
        its lengthening? Do you know anything at all about the
        sorts of sound changes that actually take place in real
        human languages? Did an aspirated stop suddenly split
        into a sequence of a stop followed by an 'h'? Did the
        'h' then somehow move to the other side of the vowel so
        it could later disappear leaving a lengthened vowel?

        We've seen you use this trick again and again and again
        in order to link forms you suppose aspirated with ones
        unaspirated, to link forms with a short vowel with ones
        with a long one. It's just a sleight-of-hand game, to
        obtain as much leeway as possible to connect words you
        fancy related.

        > A arbitrary selection of typical actions and associated ideas
        > produced derivatives like
        >
        > 1. *ka(: )-+n-, 'sing' ('hum');
        >
        > 2. and, of course *ka(: )-+d-, 'sting ('damage')';
        > i
        > 3. and subjectively: 3. *ka(: )-+i-, 'burn(ing pain)';
        >
        > 4. while, mental 'pain' is built from the same root, stress-
        > accented differently: *k^a(: )-+d- (**k-y-a(: )-+d-), producing
        > metathesis;
        >
        > 5. this secondarily palatalized root also lives on in *k^a(:)
        > -+t-, 'fight' ('hew'), and *k^a(:)-+d-, 'fall', both of which
        > refer to a bee's diving to attack, I.e. descending rapidly and
        > producing 'stinging' (cf. 'hail').

        Watch the ball. Where its stops, nobody knows.

        --- In cybalist@yahoogroup s.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@ ...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Not one single non-PIE root has been mentioned in this short
        > presentation.

        What you start with, before smashing and rearranging the
        bits to your liking and applying new meanings, are often
        P.I.E. roots indeed. Your full expositions, such as the
        one quoted above, however, fall without a doubt under the
        category of crackpot speculation forbidden by cybalist's
        rules of behavior.

        --- In cybalist@yahoogroup s.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@ ...>
        wrote:
        >
        > David,
        >
        > it is your bigotry and senseless provocation to which I refer -
        > nor Torsten's.

        Any supposed bigotry and senseless provocation on my behalf
        is as much a product of your own imagination as your roots,
        meanings, and changes. You're a bit slow on the uptake,
        Patrick, or you'd realize that I'm just rattling Torsten's
        cage, just as he so often does to me.

        Besides the pastry for which I make pilgrimages to Solvang,
        a Danish colony in California, I have no idea what Danish
        food tastes like, or what, besides Abba whose songs I love,
        Scandinavian music might be.

        Actually, I've had also a sweet-and-sour red-cabbage dish
        available as a side dish in every restaurant I've been to
        in Solvang. You wouldn't happen to know the name of that
        dish, would you, Torsten, so I can find a recipe for it?

        David

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