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Re: [tied] Re: The oddness of Gaelic words in p-

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  • Brian M. Scott
    ... Must be hell to have to worry about suffocating when all of the oxygen in your room just happens to end up near the ceiling. ... It s the result of
    Message 1 of 99 , Jun 2, 2008
      At 4:06:51 PM on Sunday, June 1, 2008, tgpedersen wrote:

      > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
      > <BMScott@...> wrote:

      >> At 6:46:24 AM on Sunday, June 1, 2008, tgpedersen wrote:

      >> [...]

      >>> Here are some comparanda:
      >>> Jysk:
      >>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/30336
      >>> NWB:
      >>> http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/KuhnText/list.html

      >>> I have peppered the various entries (from Kuhn) with
      >>> what I could find in Irish, Welsh and Breton
      >>> (occurrences in Breton are particularly difficult to
      >>> explain as loans from English).

      >> And the very first one completely misses the obvious
      >> source of Irish <peacadh>, Breton <péc'hed>, and Welsh
      >> <pechod> (not to mention OIr <peccad>): these are
      >> borrowings of Latin <peccatum>.

      > Yes, we've discussed those before, and my answer now as
      > then is that a derivation from Latin is likely, but
      > there's the odd chance it goes with the rest of Kuhn's
      > items.

      Must be hell to have to worry about suffocating when all of
      the oxygen in your room just happens to end up near the
      ceiling.

      > For one thing, the geminate in Latin bothers me, [...]

      It's the result of assimilation: *TK > KK is regular in
      Latin. Weiss gives as examples

      *ad-gradior 'approach' > aggredior
      *ad-causa:- 'charge' > accu:sa:re
      *ped-ka:- 'sin' > pecca:re,

      noting Vedic <pádyate> 'falls' in connection with the last.

      Brian
    • Patrick Ryan
      ... From: Richard Wordingham To: Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [tied] English
      Message 99 of 99 , Jun 23, 2008
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Richard Wordingham" <richard.wordingham@...>
        To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:40 PM
        Subject: Re: [tied] English Lack of /a/ (was: The oddness of Gaelic words in
        p-)


        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
        wrote:

        > Then what about PIE <a:>? Do you believe it was a lowish central
        vowel also?

        Remind me, where does it occur? AFAIK Sanskrit /a:/ is a proper low
        vowel.

        > Why did <a> not survive in PIE?

        Pre-PIE /a/ must have fronted (perhaps even raised to [æ]) and then
        perhaps got pushed out by new, central /a/ of various origins. Cf.
        varieties of English for which '/a/' is untenable as a description of
        the vowel of <bad>.

        Richard.

        ***

        Patrick:

        Richard, speaking of short vowels only, I wonder if you agree with Miguel
        and myself in believing that

        pre-PIE *Ci/a/u

        became

        late pre-PIE *CYV, *CV, *CWV


        which subsequently became

        PIE *CA (where *A is the Ablautvokal: *e / *o / *° / *Ø)


        ***
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