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Order of Some Indo-Iranian Sound Changes

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  • david_russell_watson
    As we know, in the course of the evolution of P.I.E. into Proto-Indo-Iranian the palato-velar stops became palatal or pre-palatal affricates, which
    Message 1 of 195 , Apr 19, 2008
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      As we know, in the course of the evolution of P.I.E.
      into Proto-Indo-Iranian the palato-velar stops became
      palatal or pre-palatal affricates, which subsequently
      developed fricative allophones before dental stops, so:

      k^
      g^
      g^H
      k^t
      g^d
      g^dH

      became



      j´H
      c´t = [s´]t
      j´d = [z´]d
      j´dH = [z´]dH

      In another change /s/ and its allophone [z] develop
      palatal or pre-palatal allophones after /r/, /w/, /k/,
      or /y/, RUKI, with the resulting allophones merging
      completely at some point with the fricative allophones
      of the affricates, if not identical to them from the
      start.

      Is it known, or is there any way of knowing, which of
      the changes came first?

      David
    • tgpedersen
      ... Yes, you probably imagine that. How would you back up that belief? And if so, then General American, coming from the country, should lately have exerted a
      Message 195 of 195 , Mar 8, 2009
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        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- On Sun, 3/8/09, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
        >
        > > From: tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>
        > > Subject: [tied] Re: American Dutch dialects
        > > To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 4:49 AM
        > > > > > They would have studied in the capital BUT
        > > there were no real
        > > > > > doctors where my family lived. You had to go
        > > to the capital by
        > > > > > car or train.
        > > > >
        > > > > He either had direct or indirect contact with NYC and
        > > > > spoke some predecessor of General American, or he did
        > > > > neither. You can't have it both ways.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Torsten
        > > >
        > > > The problem is that General American English sounds nothing
        > > > like NYC English. I don't think you could persuade anyone
        > > > except a die-hard Yankees fan otherwise.
        > >
        > > No, the problem is you think today's NYC English after
        > > the massive immigration of the late 19th - early 20th
        > > century is identical to that of the early 19th century.
        >
        > I imgagine that earlier NYC was even farther removed from General
        > American English.

        Yes, you probably imagine that. How would you back up that belief?
        And if so, then General American, coming from the country, should lately have exerted a major influence on the NYC dialect. How likely do you find that idea?


        > Keep in mind that NYC was NOT the major immigrant port until c.
        > 1830 or so.

        That's right. And the dialects that came first are naturally those you find furthest out on the country. And those are not General American.


        Torsten
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