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Re: Skt ka:n.a (Was: Who are indus people?)

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  • stlatos
    ... It is possible that if the PIE *kr,n.ós meant hard and had a secondary meaning of hard excrescence part of its meaning could have mixed with cornu: in
    Message 1 of 31 , Jan 1, 2008
      --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wordingham" <richard@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- "afyangh" <fournet.arnaud@> wrote:
      > >[RW] Stlatos wrote:
      > >>[RW] Richard Wordingham wrote:

      > On cerebral nasals without obvious conditioning factors:
      > >>> Admittedly that opens up the notion that ka:n.a comes from
      > >>> something like PIE **kalna or **kWolna. The nearest I can see for
      > >>> this is _kiNa_ 'corn, callosity' from PIE *kal 'hard'

      > >> Probably from PIE *kar+ 'bent, rough, hard'; *kr,n.ós > Latin
      > >> cornus, *kr,n.áH > Middle Indic kin.a-.

      > 1. Isn't that rather Latin *cornus? Are you rejecting the idea that
      > Latin _cornu:_ 'horn' comes from *k^erh2, or merely suggesting that
      > two words have become part of a polysemous whole?

      It is possible that if the PIE *kr,n.ós meant 'hard' and had a
      secondary meaning of 'hard excrescence' part of its meaning could have
      mixed with cornu: in L. However, I don't care about trying to figure
      that out; I wasn't talking about that. For this word I was refering
      to (from Pokorny):


      Number: 922

      Root: ker-4

      English meaning: cherry

      German meaning: in Worten für `Kornelkirsche, Kirsche'

      Material: Gr. krános m. f. = lat. cornus (*kr̥nos) `Kornelkirschbaum',
      kránon = lat. cornum `Kornelkirsche'


      I mainly connect it to *kar+ 'bent, rough, hard' by the hard pit of
      the cherry. Presumably in L -os > -us as in other tree words, or some
      sim. analogy.


      > 2. Are you saying that Sanskrit words such as _kin.a_ and _hud.a_,
      > _hud.u_ 'ram' (< *g^Hl.da, f. *g^Hel 'to cut', with shift from
      > 'castrated male' to 'uncastrated male') are actually borrowings from
      > Middle Indic?

      As far as I know, neither word is in the Vedas. The timing seems to
      work. Since Middle Indic languages had a variety of outcomes for r,
      it seems that *gYHl,tos > hud.a- and *kr,n.ós > kin.a- (and kan.a-
      'grain'?) are possible.

      > >> I have no reason to think ka:n.a- came from PIE.

      > I hadn't believed ln > n.

      I still don't, but see below.

      > (l.n > n. looked credible, though).
      > However, I just stumbled over this entry in Pokorny under root #879
      > *kel 'to stick, to sting':
      >
      > "kol-no-s in ai. ka:n.á-h. `durchstochen, durchlöchert, einäugig'
      > (*kolno-; zum a: vgl. Wackernagel Ai. Gr. I 168) = air. (acymr.?) coll
      > `luscum, einäugig', mir. (mit sekundärer Media) goll `blind';
      > ablautend gr. 'kellás monóphthalmos' Hes."


      If connected, I'd prefer something more like your PIE **kWolna
      (instead of **kalna) but I'd say *kWeLn.o+. As I've said, in most IE
      e>o irregularly by some P / KW and in PIE velar L existed alongside l
      (distinguishable by several changes including opt. e>a by L). This
      L+nasal > _+n. in Skt was also seen in:


      p(a)L-x-mos p(a)L-x-m+ 'cup of the hoof'

      p(a)L-x-ma:x p(a)L-x-mik+ 'palm of the hand'


      paL-x-m+
      paL-@-m+
      paL-m@+
      paL-mi+
      paL-m.i+
      paL-n.i+
      pa_-n.i+
      paa-n.i+

      pa:n.í-H 'hoof, palm'


      The PIE -ln()-, on the other hand, often gave -n.d.- in Skt.
    • Kishore patnaik
      Still, I have not the mechanics of this- how one can reach out to one meaning from another. I have in sanskrit that many of the words have various meanings-
      Message 31 of 31 , Jan 3, 2008
        Still, I have not the mechanics of this- how one can reach out to one
        meaning from another. I have in sanskrit that many of the words have
        various meanings- some of them being changed with time-if you try to
        apply a particular meaning of one age to a text of another age,
        sometimes, you may be grossly wrong.

        Please post me a link that gives the basics of the linguistics.

        regards,

        Kishore patnaik
        98492 70729
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