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Re: Re: [tied] Renfrew's theory renamed as Vasco-Caucasian

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  • etherman23
    ... occasioned Ablaut; ... opinion) simply be the zero-grade of *-éu-. ... the actual root would be *Céw + a root extension (the final *C), thus *CéCC-. I
    Message 1 of 115 , Sep 30, 2007
      --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > ***
      > Finally, a good question!
      >
      > Need to be VERBAL because, if nominal, the stress-accent can have
      occasioned Ablaut;
      >
      > for example, an actually occurring *-u- could (and would in my
      opinion) simply be the zero-grade of *-éu-.
      >
      > If we were looking at *CuC, we would have to reject the form since
      the actual root would be *Céw + a root extension (the final *C), thus
      *CéCC-.

      I put the following proposal to you. An early form of PIE did have the
      vowels *i and *u. However, when stressed these vowels diphthongized to
      *ei and *eu. Thus the zero grades represent the original forms. In
      this light verbal roots in *u and *i are easy to find since the
      zero-grade represents the actual vocalic structure.
    • etherman23
      ... the commonest form of verbal root formation in PIE. Indeed. ... *C VC. Yes. ... (only) verbal pattern calls for * V, we should expect **CíC not *CeiC,
      Message 115 of 115 , Oct 5, 2007
        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
        wrote:
        > I put the following proposal to you. An early form of PIE did have the
        > vowels *i and *u. However, when stressed these vowels diphthongized to
        > *ei and *eu. Thus the zero grades represent the original forms. In
        > this light verbal roots in *u and *i are easy to find since the
        > zero-grade represents the actual vocalic structure.
        >
        >
        > ***
        >
        > In the verbal form of *CVC, *V is a stress-accented *é. *CéC is
        the commonest form of verbal root formation in PIE.

        Indeed.

        > Presumably, then, as a verbal root, *CVC should really be notated
        *C'VC.

        Yes.

        > If we assume that *V = *i as well as *e/*o/*ø, since the commonest
        (only) verbal pattern calls for *'V, we should expect **CíC not *CeiC,
        which is better explained as *Cey + root extension.

        My proposal is **'CiC > *'CeiC.

        > Your proposal initially necessitates changing the verbal pattern
        of *C'VC to *CVC(') whenever *V is *i or *u then secondarily erasing
        all traces of this _verbal_ anomaly by emending *CiC(') and *CuC(') to
        *CéiC and *CéuC.

        There's no need to reverse stress like this. Stressed **i > *ei, and
        stressed **u > *eu (possibly through an intermediate stage, stressed
        ***i > **ai > *ei, and sim.). This is somewhat like the Great Vowel
        Shift in English.
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