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RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

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  • Cuadrado
    may be you re right see mandu-essedum = mancetter chariot pulled by pony but Taru-edum =Duncansby Head, Caithness (GB) = cross by foot ? but Ambi-taruius Vicus
    Message 1 of 145 , Aug 26, 2007
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      may be you're right
      see mandu-essedum = mancetter
      chariot pulled by pony

      but
      Taru-edum =Duncansby Head, Caithness (GB) = cross by foot ?
      but
      Ambi-taruius Vicus in Trevires tribe = the town can be cross by all
      parts
      but
      Tarauus = Tharaux Gard France = the place who you can cross the river
      but
      Tarusco = Tarascon alteration of Tar-isco = cross-river ?
      but personal name
      Brogi-tarus = One who cross the frontier
      Geso-taros = Cross-spear but spear-bull too
      Tar-kondi-motus = One who got a penetrating cock !
      (A)taru-s-ates = Aquitaine tribe = One who cross Atura river

      and may be too
      Taro-dunum = Zarten = town can be crossed



      --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      > --- patrick cuadrado <dicoceltique@...> wrote:
      >
      > > you said
      > > Thérouanne : Tarvo-(w)onna : the river of the
      > > Bull
      > > > Was the capital of the Morini.
      > >
      > > keep care
      > > Thérouanne is from Taro- = to cross...the river
      > > (onna)
      >
      > I personally prefer Tarwo-essehum "Chariot pulled by
      > bulls" ;p
      > >
      > > see Taru-essedum in Cisalpine = the town crossed
      > > by chariot
      > >
      > >
      > > tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> a écrit :
      > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com,
      > > "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I have extracted what I believed is
      > > > the core of the supposed demonstration :
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Ein ganzes Bündel anderer Namen,
      > > > Namenwörter und =suffixe sichern, mit nur kleinen
      > > Schwankungen, die
      > > > genannte Linie als den nördlichen Grenzsaum der
      > > keltischen
      > > > Ortsnamengebung, vor allem in Frankreich.
      > > > =====================================
      > > > Nördlich der Somme und
      > > > oberen Oise habe ich ein breiteres Vorkommen bei
      > > keiner
      > > > unzweïfelhaft keltischen Bildung mehr gefunden.
      > > > =================================
      > > > Es ist jedoch
      > > > wahrscheinlich, daß stärkere keltische Siedlung
      > > diese Linie nicht
      > > > überschritten hat.
      > > > =================================
      > > >
      > > > Some Unzweifelhafte examples of Gaulish compound
      > > place-names :
      > > >
      > > > Brimeux : brivo-magos (the market near the bridge)
      > > > on the Gallo-Roman road from Amiens to Boulogne
      > > > This Brivo crosses the Canche River < Cantia (the
      > > bright River in
      > > > GAulish)
      > >
      > > About 30 km north of the Somme, on the coast.
      > >
      > > > Escaudoeuvres : scaldo-briva : bridge over the
      > > Escaut River
      > > > or scaldo-opera : fortress over the Escaut
      > > > Hybrid compount : Escau-pont
      > >
      > > Kuhn, Das Zeugnis der Namen again
      > > "
      > > Plinius nennt die Schelde als westliche Grenze des
      > > germanisch
      > > besiedelten Küstensaums. Das paßt zum Zeugnis der
      > > Namen. Es fußt
      > > wahrscheinlich auf Quellen der Augustuszeit. Aber
      > > schon Caesar nennt
      > > die Schelde mit ihrem germanischen Namen (Scaldis
      > > statt des älteren
      > > Tabula). Ihr Flußgebiet muß deshalb vor der Mitte
      > > des letzten
      > > Jahrhunderts vor Christus schon stark germanisiert
      > > gewesen sein (vgl.
      > > unten).
      > > "
      > >
      > > In other words, Scaldis is a Germanic name. Other
      > > than that,
      > > part-Roman, part-Celtic hybrids are necessarily from
      > > after the Roman
      > > conquest and therefore can't be used to establish
      > > the northern border
      > > of Celtic settlement.
      > >
      > > > Nempont : hybrid compound
      > > > it is either the nemeto-pontus (bridge of the
      > > sacred place) or the
      > > > nanto-pontus (bridge of the valley)
      > >
      > > See above.
      > >
      > > > Mareuil : maro-ialos (clearing in the marshes or
      > > the big clearing)
      > >
      > > Which is where?
      > >
      > > > Beaurains, Beaurainville, Beaurain : Balo-rinos
      > > (the white river
      > > (the white Rhine !))
      > >
      > > These are the typical Celtic name elements which
      > > Kuhn used to
      > > determine Celtic settlement:
      > > "
      > > Es sind die Namenwörter briga "Berg" (mit briwa
      > > "Brücke", das von ihm
      > > oft nicht zu scheiden ist), nant = "Tal" und vern =
      > > "Erle" ..., die
      > > Namen Novientum/Noviantum und Condate "Zusammenfluß"
      > > samt Du:num
      > > "Burg" (nicht in Zusammensetzungen — ...) sowie die
      > > auf oialum/=oilum
      > > "
      > > This is not one of them, and Balo- is not
      > > necessarily Celtic.
      > >
      > > > Thérouanne : Tarvo-(w)onna : the river of the Bull
      > >
      > > > Was the capital of the Morini.
      > >
      > > But is this a typical Celtic name?
      > >
      > >
      > > > Meaullens : medio-lanum (old name of Arras
      > > neighborhood)
      > >
      > > Do you have any old forms of that?
      > >
      > >
      > > > Nemeto-cenna : old name near Arras (replaced by
      > > Atrebat-is)
      > > > the capital of Atrebates
      > > > Cited by Caesar himself !! (Please pay your
      > > respect)
      > > > He had winter campment in this place.
      > >
      > > Typical Celtic name?
      > >
      > > > Miscellaneous
      > > > ================
      > > > Beuvry, Beuvry la Forêt : from bebros "beaver"
      > > > La beuvrière
      > > > ============================
      > >
      > > Is bebros proof of Celtic settlement?
      > >
      > >
      > > > It seems to me that Herr Doktor KUHN overlooked
      > > > obvious cases in order to arrive at his
      > > pre-conceived idea.
      > > > He hypocritically discovers
      > > (ueberraschenderweise...)
      > > > that the absence of Gaulish names north of the
      > > Somme wunderbar
      > > > matches the famous Caesarian dichotomy....
      > > >
      > > > Disgusting...
      > > > Ugly work...
      > >
      > > 3 - 4 cases of briva/briga and -oilum/-oialum.
      > > Hardly ein breiteres
      > > Vorkommen.
      > >
      > > I've uploaded Kuhn's maps of the relevant Celtic
      > > toponyms to the files
      > > in the directory 'Kuhn maps'.
      > >
      > > Torsten
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Pat
      > > mon blog ici
      > >
      > http://blogs.allocine.fr/blogs/index.blog?blog=patrick-cuadrado
      > >
      > >
      > > mon cd disponible ici = Sidaventure : je pense au
      > > sida
      > >
      >
      http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/sidaventure/video/x2pc1b_
      si
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez
      > > vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Tavi
      ... West Mediterranean *bikk- (whence Logudorese beak , Belgic/NWB *bikk-, Gmc. *pikk-) was indeed borrowed into Celtic as *bekk- (whence Gallo-Latin
      Message 145 of 145 , Apr 13, 2012
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        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
        >
        > Another obscure Celtic word can be explained in a similar way. If West Mediterranean *bikk- (whence Logudorese <biccu> 'beak', Belgic/NWB *bikk-, Gmc. *pikk-) was indeed borrowed into Celtic as *bekk- (whence Gallo-Latin <beccus> and the other Romance 'beak'-words),
        >
        The Celtic word is actually *bekko- with the tematic vowel *-o-.

        > we should expect WM */u/ to get borrowed as Celt. */o/ as well. This elucidates a peculiarity of one of the key WM lexemes noted by Hubschmid (Sardische Studien 26-27). WM *buda 'marsh-reed, rush, sedge, ulva' etc. is reflected as <abuda>, <tabuda> in Berber (whence Late Lat. <buda> as a Libyan gloss, 'sedge' (Claud. Don.), 'reed-garment' (St. Aug.), 'storea, rush-mat' (CGL)), as <buda> in Sardinian, Corsican, and Sicilian, and as <vuda> in Calabrian, but as <boua> in Old Catalan, whence Cat. <bo,va>, <bo,ga> "mit auffälligem /o,/". Spanish (Salamancan) <bodón> 'pond which dries out in summer' and <bodonal> 'muddy or rush-covered ground' also require *boda as the protoform, which can be assigned to Celtic, this from WM *buda. We can now understand Gaulish *bodina 'boundary' (Medieval Lat. <bodina>, Old French <bodne>) as originally meaning 'rush-covered ground' as well, hence 'low swampy ground', 'boundary of usable land'.
        >
        There's also the island of Buda in the edlta of the Ebro. García de Diego reconstructs *buda 'reed, rush' and *budo, budo:nis 'reed marsh'.

        Also French boue 'mud' is a loanword from Gaulish *bawa: 'mud, dirty'. From this root also derives Catalan bòbila 'brickyard, brickworks'.
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