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Re: Re[2]: RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

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  • Rick McCallister
    I would question the lack of dialectal continuity between Scandinavian & Western --that s true now but Scandinavian overran Jutland c. 400 and eliminated any
    Message 1 of 145 , Aug 31, 2007
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      I would question the lack of dialectal continuity
      between Scandinavian & Western --that's true now but
      Scandinavian overran Jutland c. 400 and eliminated any
      transitional dialects. I understand that while Low
      Saxon was definitely Western, Anglian may have had
      some transitional traits and we don't know anything
      about Jutish or Geatish, etc.
      And, as Brian says, Eastern split much eariler.
      My question regarding Eastern is whether it split from
      the N end of what was a dialect chain.
      There is anecdotal evidence such as "Goth" names in
      Sweden, the Old Swedish Royal Title "KIng of the
      Swedes, the Goths and the Vandals" that suggest it
      split from Scandinavia and crossed the Baltic.
      Superficially,N German does look closer to E Germanic
      but I'm guessing because it didn't share in the same
      innovations as W Germanic and didn't riun into a
      Celtic substrate --BUT correct me
      What timeframe are we looking at?
      c. 600 BC for E Germanic?
      c. 200 BC for N Germanic?
      c. 400 AD for split-up of W Germanic languages?


      --- "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...> wrote:

      > At 1:15:38 PM on Friday, August 31, 2007,
      > fournet.arnaud
      > wrote:
      >
      > > Proto-Germanic then was cut in two branches :
      > > the northern branch went to the north avoiding
      > > Balto-Slavic at its south and then invaded
      > Scandinavia
      > > from Finland southwards. the southern branch
      > (westic) went
      > > under Balto-Slavic at its north and encroached
      > upon Celtic
      > > homeland, pushing them westward. Westic and Nordic
      > > Germanic abruptly met in Schlesvig-Holstein. this
      > is no
      > > dialectal continuity between westic and nordic
      > because
      > > they had been separated for too long when they met
      > again
      > > there.
      >
      > And yet a pretty good case can be made that the
      > primary
      > split in Germanic is between Northwest Germanic and
      > East
      > Germanic. And it's obvious that the breakup of
      > Common Gmc.
      > can't be nearly as long ago as you would have it:
      > there's
      > far too much similarity amongst the early dialects.
      >
      > Brian
      >
      >
      >




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    • Tavi
      ... West Mediterranean *bikk- (whence Logudorese beak , Belgic/NWB *bikk-, Gmc. *pikk-) was indeed borrowed into Celtic as *bekk- (whence Gallo-Latin
      Message 145 of 145 , Apr 13, 2012
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        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
        >
        > Another obscure Celtic word can be explained in a similar way. If West Mediterranean *bikk- (whence Logudorese <biccu> 'beak', Belgic/NWB *bikk-, Gmc. *pikk-) was indeed borrowed into Celtic as *bekk- (whence Gallo-Latin <beccus> and the other Romance 'beak'-words),
        >
        The Celtic word is actually *bekko- with the tematic vowel *-o-.

        > we should expect WM */u/ to get borrowed as Celt. */o/ as well. This elucidates a peculiarity of one of the key WM lexemes noted by Hubschmid (Sardische Studien 26-27). WM *buda 'marsh-reed, rush, sedge, ulva' etc. is reflected as <abuda>, <tabuda> in Berber (whence Late Lat. <buda> as a Libyan gloss, 'sedge' (Claud. Don.), 'reed-garment' (St. Aug.), 'storea, rush-mat' (CGL)), as <buda> in Sardinian, Corsican, and Sicilian, and as <vuda> in Calabrian, but as <boua> in Old Catalan, whence Cat. <bo,va>, <bo,ga> "mit auffälligem /o,/". Spanish (Salamancan) <bodón> 'pond which dries out in summer' and <bodonal> 'muddy or rush-covered ground' also require *boda as the protoform, which can be assigned to Celtic, this from WM *buda. We can now understand Gaulish *bodina 'boundary' (Medieval Lat. <bodina>, Old French <bodne>) as originally meaning 'rush-covered ground' as well, hence 'low swampy ground', 'boundary of usable land'.
        >
        There's also the island of Buda in the edlta of the Ebro. García de Diego reconstructs *buda 'reed, rush' and *budo, budo:nis 'reed marsh'.

        Also French boue 'mud' is a loanword from Gaulish *bawa: 'mud, dirty'. From this root also derives Catalan bòbila 'brickyard, brickworks'.
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