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Re: [tied] Re: Latin tardus

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  • Andrew Jarrette
    ... Hans Kuhn, in a list which matches up Latin and Germanic roots with /a/ (and therefore, presumably, from PIE /a/) has sapio: together with Gothic afsebbjan
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 30, 2006
      tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

      > and <sapio:> "taste, know" (OHG <intseffen> "perceive") vs. OE (etc.)
      ><sefa> "mind". These do not have nasalization and are not preceded
      >and followed by *w or *u, so is *a or *e original, or are the Latin
      >words with *a formations that are unrelated to the OE etc. formations
      >with *e?

      Hans Kuhn, in a list which matches up Latin and Germanic roots with /a/
      (and therefore, presumably, from PIE /a/) has sapio: together with
      Gothic afsebbjan (vel sim., by memory!). It would seem the /e/ is due
      to umlaut.

      Torsten
      _______
      Yes, I know the /e/ of <intseffen> (OS <afsebbian>) is due to umlaut.  By formations with *e I was referring to OE <sefa> "mind, understanding, heart" (= OS <sebo> and I believe ON <sefi>), which I would suppose is related to <intseffen>/<afsebbian>.
      Andrew

    • tgpedersen
      ... Possibly Latin liber/*luber? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/44457 Loan? Which reminds me: OI lo:g wage, price , Lat lucrum gain,
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 5, 2006
        > > > Never heard of that. If so, why Latin <libet>,
        > > > older <lubet>, "pleases", related to OE <lufu>
        > > > "love"? And if *u>i there in Germanic, then one
        > > > would not find <lufu> nor <lof> "praise" nor OE
        > > > <lybb> "drug" (OHG <luppi>) related to Irish <luibh>
        > > > "herb".
        > >
        > > Depending on the time the rule occurs PIE *bh could
        > > have been *f in Latin; with dissimilation of *oi>ei;
        > > *eu>ei; *u>i later (if *lub>*lab fits in with *wr.()w
        > > > *ar()w it's probably fairly old).
        > >
        >
        > Hans Kuhn (again), who would like to place the pre-Romans and pre-
        > Italics somewhere near his beloved Nordwestblock, points further to
        > the West German river Lippe, older Lupia.
        >
        > Sporadic, ie sociolectal ΓΌ/u (cf the history of Dutch [ui], in the
        > neighborhood), later i/u?
        >

        Possibly Latin liber/*luber?

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/44457

        Loan?

        Which reminds me:
        OI lo:g "wage, price", Lat lucrum "gain, advantage".
        These are related classically in PIE, if we posit the existence
        of 'extensions' *-b and *-k, of no particular meaning. If I declare
        instead this a case of allofamy, both *leu-b- and *leu-k- would be
        derived from some foreign *lau(G)- with *-b and *-k being PIE
        renditions of the final of the loanword.

        So, maybe I should ask again: should 'allofamy' be considered a
        permissible concept in PIE?


        Torsten
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