Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

genetics&linguistics

Expand Messages
  • ytielts
    Would you put me through with some information about the genetic studies you have done on different populations in the world, especially on Northern Europeans.
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 2, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Would you put me through with some information about the genetic studies
      you have done on different populations in the world, especially on
      Northern Europeans. What kind of mutation has caused them to have such a
      look as blond hair, blue eyes and white skin? When and where did this
      mutation occur? Were the earliest indoeuropean speakers homogeneous like
      Northeastern Chinese people? Were pre-indo-european population in
      Northern Europe, if there were, identical with the indo-european
      conquerors or not? I read a piece of news about Northern European
      genetic studies by an Oxford professor named Ryk Ward in 2001. Have you
      heard of him?
    • pielewe
      ... studies ... such a ... this ... like ... Others are better equipped than me to answer these questions, but I would like to make three points: (1) There is
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 3, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "ytielts" <ytielts@...> wrote:

        > Would you put me through with some information about the genetic
        studies
        > you have done on different populations in the world, especially on
        > Northern Europeans. What kind of mutation has caused them to have
        such a
        > look as blond hair, blue eyes and white skin? When and where did
        this
        > mutation occur? Were the earliest indoeuropean speakers homogeneous
        like
        > Northeastern Chinese people? Were pre-indo-european population in
        > Northern Europe, if there were, identical with the indo-european
        > conquerors or not? [...]


        Others are better equipped than me to answer these questions, but I
        would like to make three points:

        (1) There is no old connection between the North European Pamela
        Anderson type and Indo-European. Indo-European is agreed to have
        arisen much more to the south-east (present-day Ukraine and present-
        day Turkey are probably the best guesses, personally I opt for the
        former) and is intrusive to northern Europe, where it must have
        replaced one or more ancestral languages. The precise sociological
        mechanism by which the Pamelas adopted Indo-European, and when they
        did, cannot be recovered, for lack of the necessary basic
        information. A very modest amount of information about Pamela
        language is retrievable in principle through the study of substratum
        phenomena in Germanic (and possibly also Saami).

        (2) I find reading genetic studies that try to incorporate linguistic
        data extremely frustrating because most geneticist, despite their
        incredible sophistication where their own stuff is concerned, have
        not moved one inch beyond the mid nineteenth-century as far as
        mechanisms of language spread are concerned. More specifically they
        tend to be distressingly unaware (or at least insufficiently aware)
        of the role of language shift in the spread of languages.
        Pronouncements of geneticists on language should therefore be read
        with extreme care.

        (3) Genetically homogeneous populations don't exist.


        Willem
      • ytielts
        ... on ... have ... homogeneous ... I ... present- ... they ... substratum ... linguistic ... they ... aware) ... Thanks a lot for answering my questions,
        Message 3 of 3 , Feb 3, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "pielewe" <wrvermeer@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "ytielts" <ytielts@> wrote:
          >
          > > Would you put me through with some information about the genetic
          > studies
          > > you have done on different populations in the world, especially
          on
          > > Northern Europeans. What kind of mutation has caused them to
          have
          > such a
          > > look as blond hair, blue eyes and white skin? When and where did
          > this
          > > mutation occur? Were the earliest indoeuropean speakers
          homogeneous
          > like
          > > Northeastern Chinese people? Were pre-indo-european population in
          > > Northern Europe, if there were, identical with the indo-european
          > > conquerors or not? [...]
          >
          >
          > Others are better equipped than me to answer these questions, but
          I
          > would like to make three points:
          >
          > (1) There is no old connection between the North European Pamela
          > Anderson type and Indo-European. Indo-European is agreed to have
          > arisen much more to the south-east (present-day Ukraine and
          present-
          > day Turkey are probably the best guesses, personally I opt for the
          > former) and is intrusive to northern Europe, where it must have
          > replaced one or more ancestral languages. The precise sociological
          > mechanism by which the Pamelas adopted Indo-European, and when
          they
          > did, cannot be recovered, for lack of the necessary basic
          > information. A very modest amount of information about Pamela
          > language is retrievable in principle through the study of
          substratum
          > phenomena in Germanic (and possibly also Saami).
          >
          > (2) I find reading genetic studies that try to incorporate
          linguistic
          > data extremely frustrating because most geneticist, despite their
          > incredible sophistication where their own stuff is concerned, have
          > not moved one inch beyond the mid nineteenth-century as far as
          > mechanisms of language spread are concerned. More specifically
          they
          > tend to be distressingly unaware (or at least insufficiently
          aware)
          > of the role of language shift in the spread of languages.
          > Pronouncements of geneticists on language should therefore be read
          > with extreme care.
          >
          > (3) Genetically homogeneous populations don't exist.
          >
          >
          > Willem
          >
          Thanks a lot for answering my questions, Willem. I am an
          anthropology lover, however, I have a lot of rudimental things I
          don't really get a hang of.
          (1) What do you mean by the North European Pamela Anderson type. Is
          it equivalent to the Cro-Magnon type. What about the pysical
          features of the Pamela type. Do they physically resemble with
          today's Northern Europeans? Did the original Indo-European speakers
          have blonde hair, blue eyes and white skin or Did Nordic people
          create the language as they say on some websites. Were all the
          original indo speakers blonde-haired, blue-eyed and white-skinned or
          did they vary in these three counts? If they did, how come? Let's
          take proto-Chinese speakers or Manchurin speakers as an analogy in
          this case. It is well documented that Xia(pronounced in Chinese
          group and Hua group were the first Chinese speakers or, say the
          Chinese language derive from the mixture of these two groups of
          people. Central China, the provinces such as shanxi(Where Terra
          Cotta has been found and Henan( The ruins of Shang Dynasty, which
          was chronolicalzed between 1766 and 1122 BC by Chinese scholars five
          years ago. A large number of human skulls have been excavated in
          Henan province. Most of them have been agreed to be the Mongoloid
          type. They must have been the early(not the first though) Chinese
          speakers. They displayed physical identity. So my question is
          whether or not the indigeneous in Northern Europe, or the Pamela
          tyep as you mentioned pysically resembled the indo intruders. It
          seems that today's Swedes are 90% blonde-haired, blue-eyed and white-
          skinned. So does that mean that the pamela type were physically
          identical with the new comers when they started to adopt the
          exdigeneous language?

          (2) You say that A very modest amount of information about Pamela
          language is retrievable in principle through the study of substratum
          phenomena in Germanic (and possibly also Saami). Can you go in
          details please? Do you mean that some words in Germanic subfamily
          fall out of the indo? If it does, please give me some examples?

          (3)I do want to read some reliable books that well incorporate
          archaeology, linguistics with genetics. Sometimes languages are not
          concerting with genes. However, I believe that languages mostly go
          with gene flows. To search for the origin and migration of the homo
          sapiens sapiens involves the efforts of the scientists in
          archaeology, linguistics and genetics altogether even though it is
          hard to bring them together. If the out-of africa theory is agreed
          with by most of the main stream antropolists, the pay-off will be
          worth the efforts. Agreed?
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.