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Fw: [tied] PIE suffix *-ro - 'similar-with'

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  • Patrick Ryan
    Sorry about that. Someone came to the door and I accidentally SENT rather than ARCHIVed the message, which I will now finish (I hope). Patrick ... From:
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 5, 2006
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      Sorry about that. Someone came to the door and I accidentally SENT rather
      than ARCHIVed the message, which I will now finish (I hope).


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
      To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:27 AM
      Subject: Re: [tied] PIE suffix *-ro - 'similar-with'

      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...>
      > To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:47 AM
      > Subject: Re: [tied] PIE suffix *-ro - 'similar-with'
      > > alexandru_mg3 wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I would be glad to talk on some other examples.
      > > >
      > >
      > > Be my guest. Here are some typical examples of *-ró- with
      > > quasi-participial meanings (in most cases indistinguishable from those
      > > of *-tó-/*-nó-, though sometimes with some extra adjectival strength):
      > >
      > > *puH-ró- 'cleansed' (Lat. pu:rus) beside *puH-tó- (Skt. pu:tá-) from
      > > *peuH- 'clean, purify'.
      > ***

      I think this root is one that seems to show a small but significant
      difference between its -*ró and *-tó forms:

      1) the derivatives of *pu?-ró suggest an intensive even ritual manner of
      'cleaning'; and the related cluster of meanings around 'free of', again
      suggests intensive activity;

      2) the derivatives of *pu?-tó, on the other hand, seem to indicate a more
      relaxed and less methodical _collection_ of activities - simply 'cleaned';

      3) in my opinion, the likeliest basal meaning for *pu?- is as a stative
      (-*?) of an iterative (-*w) with an implication that the repetitions have
      been sufficient to achieve the degree of completion of the verbal activity
      set as a goal, of a primitive verbal *pe/o-, 'blow', obviously not seen
      uncombined by the time the PIE-stage had been reached.

      If this is correct, 'pure' is rather distinguished ancestor for a
      housewife's 'dusting', 'blowing off' the furniture.

      > > *bHudH-ró- 'vigilant, waking' (Lith. budrus, OCS bUdrU 'cheerful,
      > > fresh', Av. -buDra-) beside *bHudH-tó- (Skt. buddHá-) from *bHeudH-
      > > 'observe, be awake'.

      This seems to me to be another root in the derivatives of which we can see
      discernible difference between -*ró and -*tó: *bhudh-tó- seems to me to
      describe repetitions of an activity (-*to) that has, as a result, someone
      'being held/staying' (-*dhe/o) on 'both feet/legs' (*bhe-w-), '(a)waken';
      i.e. conceptualized as 'getting up' rather than simply 'opening the eyes'
      'returning to consciousness'. This awakened entity need not necessarily be
      anything but groggily upright and conscious but, by adding -*ró, an
      intensive, a greater degree of distance from sleepfulness is suggested:
      'vigilance, alertness, fully wakened'. Again, a remarkable semantic
      from staggering to one's feet to cosmic enlightenment.

      > > There are also numerous substantivisations like the following:
      > >
      > > *nek^-ro- 'dead (body)' (Gk. nekrós 'corpse') from *nek^- 'perish'.
      > >
      > > *ksu-ro- 'sharpened (tool)' (Gk. ksurón, Skt. ks.urá- 'razor') from
      > > *kseu- 'rub, whet'.
      > >
      > > *dHegWH-ro- 'burnt (wood)' (Gk. tépHra: 'ashes') from *dHegWH- 'burn'.

      Good selection, Piotr.

      We can see in *nek^-ro- and *dhegWh-ro- that the suffix is not -ró else we
      probably would be observing forms like **Nk^-ró- and *dhogWh-ró-.

      With *ksu-ro-, I believe the progression was a little different: **kes-
      + -**ú -> *ksu- = 'whetted' + **-ro, 'part' = '*blade-edge', and pars pro
      toto = 'razor'.

      The addition of -*n would have brought the stress-accent from **ksú-r-) (or
      possibly **kséu-(r-) one syllable to the right: *ksu-r-'Vn.

      'Ashes' are then 'the burnt part'; 'corpse', the 'perishable part'.

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