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Re: Names of a few Celtic Deities

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  • A.
    My thanks for the input so far. What I am truly looking for is any assistance that could offer potential etymologic links between Nuada/Nodens and Neto,
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 2, 2005
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      My thanks for the input so far.
      What I am truly looking for is any assistance that could offer
      potential etymologic links between Nuada/Nodens and Neto, Neitin, etc!
      Is there any way that ALL of the names could be derived from the same
      root ---- rather than *(s)neudH-/*nedh-/*neud- on one hand and *nei- on
      the other?

      Is there any way Nodonti, Nodenti, Nudente, Nodentis, Nodens, Nuadat,
      or Nuada could possibly stem from *nei-???

      Is there any way Neitin, Netus, Netoni, and Neto could possibly stem
      from *(s)neudH-, *nedh-, or *neud-???



      Sincerely,
      Aydan
    • Christopher Gwinn
      ... No. ... No. ... No. That was easy! :) ========================= ... Surely there is no etymological connection between these two names, though. ... I don t
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 2, 2005
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        Aydan wrote:
        > What I am truly looking for is any assistance that could offer
        > potential etymologic links between Nuada/Nodens and Neto, Neitin, etc!
        > Is there any way that ALL of the names could be derived from the same
        > root ---- rather than *(s)neudH-/*nedh-/*neud- on one hand and *nei- on
        > the other?

        No.

        > Is there any way Nodonti, Nodenti, Nudente, Nodentis, Nodens, Nuadat,
        > or Nuada could possibly stem from *nei-???

        No.

        > Is there any way Neitin, Netus, Netoni, and Neto could possibly stem
        > from *(s)neudH-, *nedh-, or *neud-???

        No.

        That was easy! :)

        =========================
        Patrick wrote:
        > 1) Ne:to: is the inspiration to battle frenzy; the Egyptian female
        > equivalent is Neith, a blood-thirsty cheerleader.

        Surely there is no etymological connection between these two names, though.

        > 2) Nuado is the 'raider'; the key to understanding his nature is the
        > epithet
        > Airgeadlámh, 'Silver Hand', which is self-explanatory.

        I don't think "raiding" has anything to do with his name. "Cacher" maybe,
        but not "raider".

        > What they do have in common is that both are connected to the planet
        > Mercury, the planet of thieves and ululating hysteria.

        Hunh??? I don't think so.

        > Cattle-Hand might have been a little awkward, do you not agree?
        > Silver-Hand poetically expresses the greed for any material benefit very
        > nicely.

        > I cannot find in my references here the myth of how Nuadh lost his hand.
        > Can
        > you refresh my memory?

        He lost it in fighting in the first battle of Mag Tuired:
        "The battle of Mag Tuired was fought between them and the Fir Bolg. The Fir
        Bolg were defeated, and 100,000 of them were killed including the king,
        Eochaid mac Eire. Nuadu's hand was cut off in that battle--Sreng mac
        Sengainn struck it from him. So with Credne the brazier helping him, Dian
        Cecht the physician put on him a silver hand that moved as well as any other
        hand." (Cath Maighe Tuired, Elizabeth Grey trans.)

        > Tyr is almost certainly a sun-god, and his association with the Thing
        > substantiates it; the solar divinity and law are almost always related.

        Sky god, yes, but I don't think he is what anyone would call a true sun god.

        > His lost hand is the penalty for perfidy. Did he have a prosthesis? I
        > cannot
        > remember one.

        No prosthesis for Tyr.

        - Chris Gwinn
      • Christopher Gwinn
        ... Probably not correct - both Pokorny and Watkins do not list the root as having an optional initial s-, reconstructing it instead as *sneudh-. Since Irish
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 2, 2005
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          Aydan writes:
          >1st possibility: In her work "Pagan Celtic Britain", Anne Ross
          > proposes the name Nodens to mean "Cloud Maker", and to stem from the
          > same root as the name Nuada. Thus both derize from *(s)neudH- "mist,
          > cloud"; Latin nu:bes 'nuance'; hence "Cloud Maker".

          Probably not correct - both Pokorny and Watkins do not list the root as
          having an optional initial s-, reconstructing it instead as *sneudh-. Since
          Irish preserves s- and Welsh loses s- in initial clusters like this, the
          root *sneudh- should give us OIr *snuad and Old Welsh *nud. Pokorny suggests
          that *sneudh- may be a derivative of *sna: "to flow" and in fact we find in
          OIr the words snuad "blood" and snuad "stream". I think we still have to
          look to a PIE *neu-d[h]-/*neud[h]- to explain OIr Nuadu and Welsh Nud.

          > 2nd possibility: Dumezil has attempted to link Nuada to the root
          > *nedh-, 'to bind' (Mitra-Varuna pg 99) Also the root of nodus,
          > `knot', Sanskrit naddha-, `fastened', Irish naidim, `I bind'. The
          > second edition of the American Heritage Dictionary of Indo- European
          > Roots expresses the root as *ned to bind, tie. The O-grade form is
          > *nod-. and is the root of such words as knot and net.

          Seems a little shaky to me - I don't think any o-grade versions of the root
          even appear in any Celtic languages (could be wrong, though), and you would
          need to propose a lengethened o-grade version of the root at the very
          least..

          - Chris Gwinn
        • A.
          ... the ... mist, ... root as ... . Since ... this, the ... suggests ... find in ... have to ... Nud. ... European ... the root ... you would ... very ... So
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 3, 2005
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            --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Gwinn" <sonno3@h...>
            wrote:
            > Aydan writes:
            > >1st possibility: In her work "Pagan Celtic Britain", Anne Ross
            > > proposes the name Nodens to mean "Cloud Maker", and to stem from
            the
            > > same root as the name Nuada. Thus both derize from *(s)neudH-
            "mist,
            > > cloud"; Latin nu:bes 'nuance'; hence "Cloud Maker".
            >
            > Probably not correct - both Pokorny and Watkins do not list the
            root as
            > having an optional initial s-, reconstructing it instead as *sneudh-
            . Since
            > Irish preserves s- and Welsh loses s- in initial clusters like
            this, the
            > root *sneudh- should give us OIr *snuad and Old Welsh *nud. Pokorny
            suggests
            > that *sneudh- may be a derivative of *sna: "to flow" and in fact we
            find in
            > OIr the words snuad "blood" and snuad "stream". I think we still
            have to
            > look to a PIE *neu-d[h]-/*neud[h]- to explain OIr Nuadu and Welsh
            Nud.
            >
            > > 2nd possibility: Dumezil has attempted to link Nuada to the root
            > > *nedh-, 'to bind' (Mitra-Varuna pg 99) Also the root of nodus,
            > > `knot', Sanskrit naddha-, `fastened', Irish naidim, `I bind'. The
            > > second edition of the American Heritage Dictionary of Indo-
            European
            > > Roots expresses the root as *ned to bind, tie. The O-grade form is
            > > *nod-. and is the root of such words as knot and net.
            >
            > Seems a little shaky to me - I don't think any o-grade versions of
            the root
            > even appear in any Celtic languages (could be wrong, though), and
            you would
            > need to propose a lengethened o-grade version of the root at the
            very
            > least..
            >
            > - Chris Gwinn



            So to clarify, Nuada and Mars Nodens appear to be stemming from *neu-d
            [h]-/*neud[h]

            Mars Neton, Neitin, Netoni, Neto, and Netus cannot stem from the
            same root.
            Considering that they are all found in Spain & Portugal (Iberia and
            Lusitania); I am inclined to *assume* that within this second group
            all the names refer to the same deity...

            And that while the 2nd group of Mars Neton, Neitin, Netoni, Neto,
            and Netus bear a superficial similarity to the Insular Nuada and Mars
            Nodens, they are in fact linguistically unrelated.

            Does this seem reasonable to you all?

            Regards,
            Aydan

            PS: Yes, Nuada's hand was removed by Sreng mac Sengainn (meaning,
            String/wire, son of ____) "String" seems suspisciously close to
            fetter/Gleipnir.... hence my previous posts trying to determine the
            meaning of Sengainn!
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