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Re: [tied] PIE Reconstruction

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  • P&G
    ... We can recover the presence of a laryngeal also from: (a) the effect on consonants (e.g. aspiration in Indo-Iranian) (b) the effect on prosodic patterns
    Message 1 of 91 , Jun 30, 2005
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      > If laryngeals did not affect the vowel quality of adjacent o-vocalism,
      > then internal reconstruction can offer no guarantees as to where they
      > were and weren't. Only where the o-grade alternates with some other
      > grade can we see where there were laryngeals, based on the evidence in
      > the daughter languages.

      We can recover the presence of a laryngeal also from:
      (a) the effect on consonants (e.g. aspiration in Indo-Iranian)
      (b) the effect on prosodic patterns (e.g. Brugmann's Law in I-I)
      (c) the effect on accent (e.g. in Serbian, Croat, Lithuanian etc)
      (d) the outcome of voiced resonants (e.g. Greek /a/ versus /na:/ ~ /ana/)
      etc.

      Change in vowel quality tells us which laryngeal it is, and since this
      evidence is sometimes lacking, some of our reconstructed roots have merely H
      instead of h1 or h2 or h3.

      Peter
    • stlatos
      ... The paradigm dé:gan, dagná:s would be evidence for PIE *degho:m, *dghmos (with insertion of @ a, or maybe *doghmos) if taken at face value. However,
      Message 91 of 91 , Oct 2, 2008
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        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "elmeras2000" <jer@...> wrote:

        > The word for "earth" is Hitt. tekan, gen.
        > tagnas, which must represent a more original form of the paradigm
        > which was changed in the other branches by introduction of the
        > product of the cluster *d(h)g^h- as it had been in the locative, **d
        > (h)g^h-ém(-i) > IE *g^h{th}ém(-i) (Ved. ks.ámi). This is one of the
        > mainstays of the understanding of the "thorn" clusters in IE. It is
        > of course also one of the basic arguments for an Indo-Hittite model,
        > indicating as it does that Anatolian was the first branch to split
        > away from the IE unity. This is all classical knowledge by now.
        >
        > Jens
        >

        The paradigm dé:gan, dagná:s would be evidence for PIE *degho:m,
        *dghmos (with insertion of @>a, or maybe *doghmos) if taken at face
        value. However, there are problems.

        It's hard to see how the above paradigm could give *ghdo:m so
        consistently in the rest. No other languages have anything with
        *dogh, *degh, *d@gh, or *dagh due to insertion or retention in 'earth'
        or derivatives. Changes of sC- to isC- and tk>tak as h^ar-ta-ag-ga-
        (xartaka-?) in Hittite could be evidence of insertion as a possible
        explanation for dé:gan, dagná:s, but why would the V be e in one case
        and a in another?

        The other branch used to support *dgh- is Tocharian *tken > TA tkaM,
        TB keM with m > n in the nominative spreading to all forms (like
        Hittite). This shows no e between t_k and an odd e where o might be
        expected. This might be explained by analogy of o:m with om+ in the
        obl. with -om > -em (tying in with -os > -e), but there are no other
        examples.

        However, if both cognates are explained by the same changes, another
        possibility exists. If -o:m > -e:m in both, then the inserted V in
        dé:gan, dagná:s and xartaka- would always be the same as the following
        V (en > an later, regularly). Thus the same form *ghdo:m > *dghe:m >
        dé:gan, *tken > TA tkaM, TB keM as well as G khthó:n, L hu:m-, Alb
        dhe, etc.


        To Anatolian and Tocharian:

        *ghdo:m
        *dgho:m
        *dghe:m


        To Hittite:

        *dghe:m ... *dghmos
        *deghe:m .. *doghmos
        *deghe:m .. *daghmas
        *deghem
        *deghen
        *deghan
        *degan
        *degan .... *dagnas (ana. with nom causes m>n)


        The same with other Anatolian (loc. *dghomi > *doghomi > Luw *dagami
        takami).
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