Re: Re: [tied] Rom. tsarca - Lit. s^árka
- Brian M. Scott wrote:
> At 1:54:24 PM on Thursday, December 2, 2004, alex wrote:so far so right. The problem is the time here. Hungarians arrived at the end
>> Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:
>>> Hung. szarka is rather obviously a loan from Slavic.
>> with "a" from "o"?
> As I understand it, the PSl vowel was a low, back vowel,
> variously described as weakly rounded and as without
> *distinctive* rounding; this would make it very similar to
> Hungarian <a>, which I have usually seen transcribed as [A.]
> (IPA turned-script-a).
of X century, almost XI century. The PSl seems to be in a another period of
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@i...>
> I'll have to look into that.~ c^.
> > BTW Piotr, I remember you have not agreed at that
> > time as Vinereanu said IE k^> Rom. "ts" but I am not very sure
> No. The regular development is of course PIE *k^ > Lat. k > Rom. k
> [ts] for PIE *k^ appears in old loanwords from Albanian. I don'tI accept the usage of "old loanword" but I cannot accept "from
> question that, of course.
Albanian" in this case; we are obliged to underline these loans have
phoneticaly a pre-Latin character. And there is not possible to speak
about Alb. or ProtoAlbanian, but About Thracians and Ilirians. Just
to remain on the correct timeframe and correct terminology.
>not "cep" (c^ep) but "Tep"(tsep) aka Eng. Spine, Germ. Stachel. its
> > A suggestion now should be that *sarka is indeed an satem form of
> > an
> > *k^er +suff "-ka"; if so, then Hung. "sarka" is a loan from
> > Slavic (
> > tipic satem "s") and Rom. "ts" in "tsarka" is the expected (?)
> > reflex
> > of IE "*k^"; this assumtion should be sustained by "tsep"
> > lat "cippus", Alb. "thep" ( < IE k^eip-) and there are for sure
> > more other examples.
> But Rom. cep comes straight from Lat. cippus (var. of ci:pus). Alb.
> 'jag' < *k^oipo- is related but independent.
feminine coutnerpart is to find in DEX as "tseapã" (Teapã) and it is
compared (not derived) with Slavic "c^epati"; strange enough,
Alb. "thep" is not considered there.