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Northern Baltic substratum?

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  • Michael Smith
    Can Bronze Age settlements from the northern Baltic regions be speculatively identified at all through a possible substratum behind Baltic in this region? Or
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 3, 2004
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      Can Bronze Age settlements from the northern Baltic regions be
      speculatively identified at all through a possible substratum behind
      Baltic in this region? Or are Baltic-speaking tribal groups believed
      to have been present in this region during the Bronze Age?

      Thoughts?

      -Michael
    • tgpedersen
      ... behind ... believed ... If by Baltic you mean close to the Baltic Sea your question is difficult to understand. Baltic is spoken today in the southern,
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 4, 2004
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        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Smith"
        <mytoyneighborhood@s...> wrote:
        >
        > Can Bronze Age settlements from the northern Baltic regions be
        > speculatively identified at all through a possible substratum
        behind
        > Baltic in this region? Or are Baltic-speaking tribal groups
        believed
        > to have been present in this region during the Bronze Age?
        >
        > Thoughts?
        >
        If by 'Baltic' you mean 'close to the Baltic Sea' your question is
        difficult to understand. Baltic is spoken today in the southern, not
        nothern end of the Baltic Sea.

        PIE has free accent. Lithuanian has free accent. Latvian has initial
        accent. Estonian and Finnish have initial accent. Polish once had
        initial accent. Germanic has initial accent. One gets the impression
        that Lithuanian is an old IE incursion (from the sea?) into an area
        which spoke a language with initial accent.

        Kuhn posited an ar-/ur- language in approximate the area where now
        these initial-accent languages are spoken. I believe it must have
        included the apa/upe "water, river" and apple/ubol words, which are
        not necessarily IE. One difference from Krahe's 'Old European' is
        that suffixes consist of a single consonant -C (example: Ource, Urk)
        instead of Old European's -VC, which could be a sign of a strong
        initial accent.

        Torsten
      • Richard Wordingham
        ... not ... initial ... impression ... Except that Proto-Slavic also has a free(ish), mobile accent. See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/14555
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 4, 2004
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          --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@h...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Smith"
          > <mytoyneighborhood@s...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Can Bronze Age settlements from the northern Baltic regions be
          > > speculatively identified at all through a possible substratum
          > behind
          > > Baltic in this region? Or are Baltic-speaking tribal groups
          > believed
          > > to have been present in this region during the Bronze Age?
          > >
          > > Thoughts?
          > >
          > If by 'Baltic' you mean 'close to the Baltic Sea' your question is
          > difficult to understand. Baltic is spoken today in the southern,
          not
          > nothern end of the Baltic Sea.
          >
          > PIE has free accent. Lithuanian has free accent. Latvian has
          initial
          > accent. Estonian and Finnish have initial accent. Polish once had
          > initial accent. Germanic has initial accent. One gets the
          impression
          > that Lithuanian is an old IE incursion (from the sea?) into an area
          > which spoke a language with initial accent.

          Except that Proto-Slavic also has a free(ish), mobile accent. See
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/14555 for a dating of
          the initial stress in Polish (perhaps establised as late as 1200) and
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/14553 for the Polish
          shift from initial to penultimate.

          Richard.
        • Michael Smith
          Salty Balty!!!! ... behind ... believed
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 7, 2004
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            Salty Balty!!!!

            --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Smith"
            <mytoyneighborhood@s...> wrote:
            >
            > Can Bronze Age settlements from the northern Baltic regions be
            > speculatively identified at all through a possible substratum
            behind
            > Baltic in this region? Or are Baltic-speaking tribal groups
            believed
            > to have been present in this region during the Bronze Age?
            >
            > Thoughts?
            >
            > -Michael
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