Re: [tied] Re: Rise of the Feminine (was: -osyo 3)
- Could the Greek -id had some relationship with Semitic and Egyptian feminine -t ?Joao SL----- Original Message -----From: Richard WordinghamSent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 3:44 PMSubject: [tied] Re: Rise of the Feminine (was: -osyo 3)--- In email@example.com, "elmeras2000" <jer@c...> wrote:
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Richard Wordingham"
> <richard.wordingham@n...> wrote:
> > Don't thematic adjectives of two terminations (i.e. identical
> > masculine and feminine) argue for the feminine being 'recent'?
> > I
> > think the same could be said for the various feminine-only
> > adjectives that occur in Greek.
> What is meant by this?
There are a fair few consonant stem adjectives in -d- that do not
have corresponding masculine or neuter forms:
_basile:ï's_, _basilís_ 'kingly, royal'
_gorgôpis_ 'fierce-eyed, terrible'
_dikthás_ 'double, divided'
_Do:rís_ 'Doric, Dorian'
Many have clearly related adjectives applicable to at least
masculine and feminine:
_gorgó:ps_, _gorgo:pós_ (2-termination)
_Do:rikós_, Dó:rios 'Doric, Dorian'
An interesting pair, perhaps reflecting an original, chaotic state
of affairs is the pair
_do:matí:te:s_ (masculine, 1st declension)
_do:matîtis_ (feminine, 3rd declension in -d-)
'belonging to the house or household'.
Should I be looking forward to hearing how Greek -id- is a byform
of //yeh2// ? :)
> My arguments for the antiquity of the feminine are as follows:
> 1. The fem. of athematic is formed by a suffix //-yeH2-// which
> shows ablaut. The process that brought about ablaut was long over
> when Anatolian broke off from the rest of IE, for wordforms ablaut
> in Anatolian just as they do in the other branches.
Does this argue for the antiquity of the feminine _gender_, or just
for the antiquity of the facultative formation of feminine
I've not discussed the other arguments as at present I have nothing
remotely useful to say about them.
- --- In email@example.com, "Joao" <josimo70@y...> wrote:
> Could the Greek -id had some relationship with Semitic andEgyptian feminine -t ?
The relationship has already been implicitly claimed for the PIE
pronominal neuter singular *-d, as part of the (pre-PIE)-(Afro-
Asiatic)-(Central Khoisan) sprachbund (
http://members.pgv.at/homer/INDOEURO/afroasia.htm ), which shows
genders and possibly some communality of gender-related affixes.
Starostin has recently published what seems a careful analysis of
100-word lists (Mother Tongue Issue VIII, 2003), which shows that
with the exception of Sandawe and Hadze, whose inclusion remains
uncertain, Khoisan is a genetic unit.
> Starostin has recently published what seems a careful analysis ofI haven't seen his analysis but similar approaches have fared ill before.
> 100-word lists (Mother Tongue Issue VIII, 2003), which shows that
> with the exception of Sandawe and Hadze, whose inclusion remains
> uncertain, Khoisan is a genetic unit.
I actually had the chance to speak to Tom Gu"ldemann a few weeks ago and
he grouped Khoisan into 6 genetic unit: Hadza, Sandawe, South Khoisan,
Central Khoisan + Kwadi, Northern Khoisan and #Ho~a. The novelty is that
Kwadi was tentatively joined with Central Khoisan since Gu"ldemann
got access to the unpublished field notes.