Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [tied] Zupanija and Slavic-Aryan connections

Expand Messages
  • Piotr Gasiorowski
    ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:42 AM Subject: [tied] (unknown) Zupanija (Z = zh or z^ ) is
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 27, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <kalyan97@...>
      To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:42 AM
      Subject: [tied] (unknown)


      Zupanija (Z = "zh" or "z^") is derived from Zupan 'the
      supervisor of a Zupa (a salt mine, sometimes also a salt or
      silver depot)' -- a very important function in early Slavic
      states, as salt production was an extremely lucrative
      business, usually monopolised by the ruler. Zupan eventually
      came to mean something like 'alderman' or 'sheriff' in
      Anglo-Saxon England -- a royal official responsible for an
      administrative unit. As characteristically Iranian agent
      nouns in -pa:na- (cf. Indic -pa:- < IE *pax-) mean
      'guardian, supervisor, protector', an Iranian connection
      used to be proposed for Zupan as well, but the idea has been
      abandoned by most scholars: the morphological division is
      after all Zup-an rather than Zu-pan. However, Zupa itself is
      a mysterious word and I'd like to see a convincing etymology
      of it myself. Slavic *Z comes from earlier *g(W) palatalised
      before a front vowel (that is, Zupa < something like
      *geup-a:), which seems to rule out any connection with the
      Tamil word.

      The West Slavic word *(gU)panU (Polish pan, Czech & Slovak
      pán, Old Czech hpán) meaning 'lord, master, sir, Mr.' is in
      all likelihood independent of Zupan, though it was once
      regarded as its abbreviation. It may be a genuine Iranian
      loan, as *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' is a very
      plausible Iranian compound (attested e.g. in Pashto as
      Go:b@, G = "gh", cf. also Sanskrit go-pa:-). Perhaps the
      Slavs retained a memory of their powerful Scythian or
      Sarmatian neighbours as cattle breeders and cowboys.
      An alternative etymology (less convincing, as far as I'm
      concerned) connects pan with IE *pot- 'host, master'
      (surviving in Lithuanian patis = Sanskrit pati- < *pot-i-)
      via the feminine form *pot-ni: > *po:ni: > (West) Slavic
      pani, yielding pan through back-derivation. This etymology,
      though beguiling, doesn't work without some ad hoc tricks
      and fails to explain the Old Czech form.

      Old Indic sabha: 'house of public meetings (+ secondary
      meanings)' is not connected with any of the above. I'm not
      sure how to etymologise it, but since it was used with
      reference to assemblies, social gatherings, etc., sa- must
      be the 'together' prefix. We'd need an Indologist to
      explain -bha: in this context (< *sm-bHw-a: 'being
      together'??).

      Piotr


      > http://www.croatia.hr/counties.html
      > The Zupanija (county), appeared in the 10th century as a
      more
      > advanced form of the territorial and political
      organization of the
      > Croatian state.
      >
      > I would appreciate info. on the etymology of 'zupanija'.
      In Tamil,
      > 'cupai' means a district or province. Can this be related
      to
      > sabha_ (Rigveda)?
      >
      > Regards, Kalyanaraman
    • Piotr Gasiorowski
      ... From: Piotr Gasiorowski To: Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [tied] Zupanija and
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 27, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...>
        To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 1:21 PM
        Subject: Re: [tied] Zupanija and Slavic-Aryan connections



        I wrote, a little too hastily:

        > Old Indic sabha: 'house of public meetings (+ secondary
        > meanings)' is not connected with any of the above. I'm not
        > sure how to etymologise it, but since it was used with
        > reference to assemblies, social gatherings, etc., sa- must
        > be the 'together' prefix. We'd need an Indologist to
        > explain -bha: in this context (< *sm-bHw-a: 'being
        > together'??).

        The zero grade *sm- actually means 'one, once, the same' in
        Indic, rather than 'together', which would be *som- > Indic
        saM- (as in saM-bhava-, the actual word for 'being
        together'). I still don't know how to analyse sabha:. Any
        ideas?

        Piotr
      • tolgs001
        ... Are then the assertions below correct? (1) _Zhoopan_ - an official (Eastern Caucasian) (BTW, what kind of Eastern Caucasian ?) (2) _Chupan_
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 17, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          gpiotr wrote:

          >It may be a genuine Iranian
          >loan, as *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' is a very
          >plausible Iranian compound (attested e.g. in Pashto as
          >Go:b@, G = "gh", cf. also Sanskrit go-pa:-). Perhaps the
          >Slavs retained a memory of their powerful Scythian or
          >Sarmatian neighbours as cattle breeders and cowboys.

          Are then the assertions below correct?

          (1) ''_Zhoopan_ - an official (Eastern Caucasian)''

          (BTW, what kind of ''Eastern Caucasian''?)

          (2) ''_Chupan_ (Sogdian)''

          Source: http://groznijat.tripod.com/b_lang/bl_oldwords.html
          (re. Bulghar (proto-Bulgarian) inscriptions; where _z^upan_
          is rendered as _ZOAPAN_ and _SOAPAN_, in Greek letters)

          (3) ''The term it seems, is ultimately of Avar origin. (...)
          Originally, since nomadic times, the _zupa_ started as an extended
          family, where authority rested with a pater familias (...), called
          zupan (...). In time, some evolved into larger clans, (...).''

          (in: _®upa_, en.wikipedia)

          George
        • alexandru_mg3
          ... Piotr, *g(a)u-pa:na- cattle-guardian, cowherd cannot be the original form (at least not *g(a)u-) because Romanian Old Form was /g^upIn/ So the original
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 17, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...>
            wrote:

            > Zupanija (Z = "zh" or "z^") is derived from Zupan 'the
            > supervisor of a Zupa (a salt mine, sometimes also a salt or
            > silver depot)' -- a very important function in early Slavic
            > states, as salt production was an extremely lucrative
            > business, usually monopolised by the ruler. Zupan eventually
            > came to mean something like 'alderman' or 'sheriff' in
            > Anglo-Saxon England -- a royal official responsible for an
            > administrative unit. As characteristically Iranian agent
            > nouns in -pa:na- (cf. Indic -pa:- < IE *pax-) mean
            > 'guardian, supervisor, protector', an Iranian connection
            > used to be proposed for Zupan as well, but the idea has been
            > abandoned by most scholars: the morphological division is
            > after all Zup-an rather than Zu-pan. However, Zupa itself is
            > a mysterious word and I'd like to see a convincing etymology
            > of it myself. Slavic *Z comes from earlier *g(W) palatalised
            > before a front vowel (that is, Zupa < something like
            > *geup-a:), which seems to rule out any connection with the
            > Tamil word.



            > The West Slavic word *(gU)panU (Polish pan, Czech & Slovak
            > pán, Old Czech hpán) meaning 'lord, master, sir, Mr.' is in
            > all likelihood independent of Zupan, though it was once
            > regarded as its abbreviation. It may be a genuine Iranian
            > loan, as *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' is a very
            > plausible Iranian compound (attested e.g. in Pashto as
            > Go:b@, G = "gh", cf. also Sanskrit go-pa:-). Perhaps the
            > Slavs retained a memory of their powerful Scythian or
            > Sarmatian neighbours as cattle breeders and cowboys.
            > An alternative etymology (less convincing, as far as I'm
            > concerned) connects pan with IE *pot- 'host, master'
            > (surviving in Lithuanian patis = Sanskrit pati- < *pot-i-)
            > via the feminine form *pot-ni: > *po:ni: > (West) Slavic
            > pani, yielding pan through back-derivation. This etymology,
            > though beguiling, doesn't work without some ad hoc tricks
            > and fails to explain the Old Czech form.


            Piotr, *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' cannot be the original
            form (at least not *g(a)u-) because Romanian Old Form was /g^upIn/

            So the original initial sound at that stage was some of:

            *g^-
            *y-
            *dzy-
            *dy-

            Note also: ^a /I/ before n that gave us a timeframe somewhere before
            or just around 600 AC


            Marius
          • alexandru_mg3
            ... original ... Also *dzw- Marius
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 17, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@>
              > wrote:
              >
              > > Zupanija (Z = "zh" or "z^") is derived from Zupan 'the
              > > supervisor of a Zupa (a salt mine, sometimes also a salt or
              > > silver depot)' -- a very important function in early Slavic
              > > states, as salt production was an extremely lucrative
              > > business, usually monopolised by the ruler. Zupan eventually
              > > came to mean something like 'alderman' or 'sheriff' in
              > > Anglo-Saxon England -- a royal official responsible for an
              > > administrative unit. As characteristically Iranian agent
              > > nouns in -pa:na- (cf. Indic -pa:- < IE *pax-) mean
              > > 'guardian, supervisor, protector', an Iranian connection
              > > used to be proposed for Zupan as well, but the idea has been
              > > abandoned by most scholars: the morphological division is
              > > after all Zup-an rather than Zu-pan. However, Zupa itself is
              > > a mysterious word and I'd like to see a convincing etymology
              > > of it myself. Slavic *Z comes from earlier *g(W) palatalised
              > > before a front vowel (that is, Zupa < something like
              > > *geup-a:), which seems to rule out any connection with the
              > > Tamil word.
              >
              >
              >
              > > The West Slavic word *(gU)panU (Polish pan, Czech & Slovak
              > > pán, Old Czech hpán) meaning 'lord, master, sir, Mr.' is in
              > > all likelihood independent of Zupan, though it was once
              > > regarded as its abbreviation. It may be a genuine Iranian
              > > loan, as *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' is a very
              > > plausible Iranian compound (attested e.g. in Pashto as
              > > Go:b@, G = "gh", cf. also Sanskrit go-pa:-). Perhaps the
              > > Slavs retained a memory of their powerful Scythian or
              > > Sarmatian neighbours as cattle breeders and cowboys.
              > > An alternative etymology (less convincing, as far as I'm
              > > concerned) connects pan with IE *pot- 'host, master'
              > > (surviving in Lithuanian patis = Sanskrit pati- < *pot-i-)
              > > via the feminine form *pot-ni: > *po:ni: > (West) Slavic
              > > pani, yielding pan through back-derivation. This etymology,
              > > though beguiling, doesn't work without some ad hoc tricks
              > > and fails to explain the Old Czech form.
              >
              >
              > Piotr, *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' cannot be the
              original
              > form (at least not *g(a)u-) because Romanian Old Form was /g^upIn/
              >
              > So the original initial sound at that stage was some of:
              >
              > *g^-
              > *y-
              > *dzy-
              > *dy-
              >
              > Note also: ^a /I/ before n that gave us a timeframe somewhere before
              > or just around 600 AC
              >
              >
              > Marius
              >

              Also *dzw-

              Marius
            • alexandru_mg3
              ... original ... On the today Romanian territory the word is attested: I. - aprox. somewhere between sec. IV?-VIII? on the artifact number 21 of Extraordinary
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 17, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@>
                > wrote:
                >
                > > Zupanija (Z = "zh" or "z^") is derived from Zupan 'the
                > > supervisor of a Zupa (a salt mine, sometimes also a salt or
                > > silver depot)' -- a very important function in early Slavic
                > > states, as salt production was an extremely lucrative
                > > business, usually monopolised by the ruler. Zupan eventually
                > > came to mean something like 'alderman' or 'sheriff' in
                > > Anglo-Saxon England -- a royal official responsible for an
                > > administrative unit. As characteristically Iranian agent
                > > nouns in -pa:na- (cf. Indic -pa:- < IE *pax-) mean
                > > 'guardian, supervisor, protector', an Iranian connection
                > > used to be proposed for Zupan as well, but the idea has been
                > > abandoned by most scholars: the morphological division is
                > > after all Zup-an rather than Zu-pan. However, Zupa itself is
                > > a mysterious word and I'd like to see a convincing etymology
                > > of it myself. Slavic *Z comes from earlier *g(W) palatalised
                > > before a front vowel (that is, Zupa < something like
                > > *geup-a:), which seems to rule out any connection with the
                > > Tamil word.
                >
                >
                >
                > > The West Slavic word *(gU)panU (Polish pan, Czech & Slovak
                > > pán, Old Czech hpán) meaning 'lord, master, sir, Mr.' is in
                > > all likelihood independent of Zupan, though it was once
                > > regarded as its abbreviation. It may be a genuine Iranian
                > > loan, as *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' is a very
                > > plausible Iranian compound (attested e.g. in Pashto as
                > > Go:b@, G = "gh", cf. also Sanskrit go-pa:-). Perhaps the
                > > Slavs retained a memory of their powerful Scythian or
                > > Sarmatian neighbours as cattle breeders and cowboys.
                > > An alternative etymology (less convincing, as far as I'm
                > > concerned) connects pan with IE *pot- 'host, master'
                > > (surviving in Lithuanian patis = Sanskrit pati- < *pot-i-)
                > > via the feminine form *pot-ni: > *po:ni: > (West) Slavic
                > > pani, yielding pan through back-derivation. This etymology,
                > > though beguiling, doesn't work without some ad hoc tricks
                > > and fails to explain the Old Czech form.
                >
                >
                > Piotr, *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' cannot be the
                original
                > form (at least not *g(a)u-) because Romanian Old Form was /g^upIn/
                >
                > So the original initial sound at that stage was some of:
                >
                > *g^-
                > *y-
                > *dzy-
                > *dy-
                >
                > Note also: ^a /I/ before n that gave us a timeframe somewhere before
                > or just around 600 AC
                >
                >
                > Marius
                >


                On the today Romanian territory the word is attested:

                I. - aprox. somewhere between sec. IV?-VIII? on the artifact number
                21 of Extraordinary Gold Tresor of Sannicolau Mare

                (you can see the gold artifacts here
                http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tezaurul_de_la_S%c3%a2nnicolau_Mare)

                The inscriptions seems to be in a Turkic? Language and is
                written with Greek Characters
                - the inscription talks about ZOUPAN BUILA/BOILA AND ZOUPAN
                BUTAUL/BOTAUL
                see at:
                http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/30_Writing/Nagy-Szent-
                Miklos_En.htm

                No intention of nationalism on my side:
                1. but Buila/Boila and Butaul/Botaul sound for me like some Names
                taken from Romanian Old Popular Stories ...
                2. and I can add their terminations: -ila (as in lung-il&) and
                especially -ul (lup-ul) (-(u)l Articol Hotarat in Romanian) at the
                end of these names
                3. and last but not least botaul /bot&ul/ is a Romanian word, a
                derived word from /bot&/ meaning: 'a big' bota /bot&/ => 'a big stick'

                --------------------------------------
                Iara Costea cum mergea
                Cu Fulga se intalnea.
                Fulga cel cu barba neagra
                Si cu mintea neintreaga,
                Necajit si obosit,
                De trei zile flamanzit:
                „Alei! Fulgo, dragul meu,
                Sa faci cum ti-oi zice eu:
                Mergi la stana mea cu bine
                Sa-ti iei un dar de la mine,
                Trei mioare de frigare
                S-inca una de caldare
                Ca sa-ti fie de pranzare.“
                Fulga cel cu barba neagra,
                Dar cu mintea neintreaga,
                Sus la stana se ducea
                S-oile cat le vedea,
                Carduri, carduri le rupea,
                Cu BOTAUL /bot&ul/ le mana
                In codru la Pandina.
                ----------------------------------------

                the popular poem can be found here:
                http://www.preferatele.com/docs/romana/3/romanii-de-pe-maluri24.php

                ==============================
                Cu BOTAUL /bot&ul/ le m^ana
                -> 'with a Big Stick ...he 'has driven' the sheeps
                ==============================


                II. - at 843 in an inscription in Dobrogea that seems to be in Slavic
                "Jupan Dimitrie"

                http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ro/8/8f/Jupan_Dimitrie.jpg


                III. Other Inscriptions in Dobrogea in sec X


                NOTE: WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THAT THE WORD IS ATTESTED IN 2 DIFFERENT
                LANGUAGES APROX. IN THE SAME HISTORICAL PERIOD AND IN THE SAME
                TERRITORRY => that indicated a widely utilization of it, across the
                language barriers


                IV. The name of the Dacian King Duras Diurpaneus was usually
                interpreted as a compound *diur- + *pa:neus

                If *diur- is not quite clear, "it is hard not no try" to interpret
                -pa:neus as "Master, Lord" (in Diur-paneus)

                No link with the above remark:
                But a word *diurpaneus would gave been survived in Old Romanian
                as *g^urp^an- and in Romanian as *jurp^an-
                For this reason it was put in link with Romanian jup^an too.


                Marius
              • alexandru_mg3
                ... before ... number ... stick ... Slavic ... DIFFERENT ... interpret ... and BOILA /bo-i-l&/ is a common Romanian Name today in Transylvannia a Google
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 17, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Zupanija (Z = "zh" or "z^") is derived from Zupan 'the
                  > > > supervisor of a Zupa (a salt mine, sometimes also a salt or
                  > > > silver depot)' -- a very important function in early Slavic
                  > > > states, as salt production was an extremely lucrative
                  > > > business, usually monopolised by the ruler. Zupan eventually
                  > > > came to mean something like 'alderman' or 'sheriff' in
                  > > > Anglo-Saxon England -- a royal official responsible for an
                  > > > administrative unit. As characteristically Iranian agent
                  > > > nouns in -pa:na- (cf. Indic -pa:- < IE *pax-) mean
                  > > > 'guardian, supervisor, protector', an Iranian connection
                  > > > used to be proposed for Zupan as well, but the idea has been
                  > > > abandoned by most scholars: the morphological division is
                  > > > after all Zup-an rather than Zu-pan. However, Zupa itself is
                  > > > a mysterious word and I'd like to see a convincing etymology
                  > > > of it myself. Slavic *Z comes from earlier *g(W) palatalised
                  > > > before a front vowel (that is, Zupa < something like
                  > > > *geup-a:), which seems to rule out any connection with the
                  > > > Tamil word.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > The West Slavic word *(gU)panU (Polish pan, Czech & Slovak
                  > > > pán, Old Czech hpán) meaning 'lord, master, sir, Mr.' is in
                  > > > all likelihood independent of Zupan, though it was once
                  > > > regarded as its abbreviation. It may be a genuine Iranian
                  > > > loan, as *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' is a very
                  > > > plausible Iranian compound (attested e.g. in Pashto as
                  > > > Go:b@, G = "gh", cf. also Sanskrit go-pa:-). Perhaps the
                  > > > Slavs retained a memory of their powerful Scythian or
                  > > > Sarmatian neighbours as cattle breeders and cowboys.
                  > > > An alternative etymology (less convincing, as far as I'm
                  > > > concerned) connects pan with IE *pot- 'host, master'
                  > > > (surviving in Lithuanian patis = Sanskrit pati- < *pot-i-)
                  > > > via the feminine form *pot-ni: > *po:ni: > (West) Slavic
                  > > > pani, yielding pan through back-derivation. This etymology,
                  > > > though beguiling, doesn't work without some ad hoc tricks
                  > > > and fails to explain the Old Czech form.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Piotr, *g(a)u-pa:na- 'cattle-guardian, cowherd' cannot be the
                  > original
                  > > form (at least not *g(a)u-) because Romanian Old Form was /g^upIn/
                  > >
                  > > So the original initial sound at that stage was some of:
                  > >
                  > > *g^-
                  > > *y-
                  > > *dzy-
                  > > *dy-
                  > >
                  > > Note also: ^a /I/ before n that gave us a timeframe somewhere
                  before
                  > > or just around 600 AC
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Marius
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > On the today Romanian territory the word is attested:
                  >
                  > I. - aprox. somewhere between sec. IV?-VIII? on the artifact
                  number
                  > 21 of Extraordinary Gold Tresor of Sannicolau Mare
                  >
                  > (you can see the gold artifacts here
                  > http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tezaurul_de_la_S%c3%a2nnicolau_Mare)
                  >
                  > The inscriptions seems to be in a Turkic? Language and is
                  > written with Greek Characters
                  > - the inscription talks about ZOUPAN BUILA/BOILA AND ZOUPAN
                  > BUTAUL/BOTAUL
                  > see at:
                  > http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/30_Writing/Nagy-Szent-
                  > Miklos_En.htm
                  >
                  > No intention of nationalism on my side:
                  > 1. but Buila/Boila and Butaul/Botaul sound for me like some Names
                  > taken from Romanian Old Popular Stories ...
                  > 2. and I can add their terminations: -ila (as in lung-il&) and
                  > especially -ul (lup-ul) (-(u)l Articol Hotarat in Romanian) at the
                  > end of these names
                  > 3. and last but not least botaul /bot&ul/ is a Romanian word, a
                  > derived word from /bot&/ meaning: 'a big' bota /bot&/ => 'a big
                  stick'
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------
                  > Iara Costea cum mergea
                  > Cu Fulga se intalnea.
                  > Fulga cel cu barba neagra
                  > Si cu mintea neintreaga,
                  > Necajit si obosit,
                  > De trei zile flamanzit:
                  > „Alei! Fulgo, dragul meu,
                  > Sa faci cum ti-oi zice eu:
                  > Mergi la stana mea cu bine
                  > Sa-ti iei un dar de la mine,
                  > Trei mioare de frigare
                  > S-inca una de caldare
                  > Ca sa-ti fie de pranzare.“
                  > Fulga cel cu barba neagra,
                  > Dar cu mintea neintreaga,
                  > Sus la stana se ducea
                  > S-oile cat le vedea,
                  > Carduri, carduri le rupea,
                  > Cu BOTAUL /bot&ul/ le mana
                  > In codru la Pandina.
                  > ----------------------------------------
                  >
                  > the popular poem can be found here:
                  > http://www.preferatele.com/docs/romana/3/romanii-de-pe-maluri24.php
                  >
                  > ==============================
                  > Cu BOTAUL /bot&ul/ le m^ana
                  > -> 'with a Big Stick ...he 'has driven' the sheeps
                  > ==============================
                  >
                  >
                  > II. - at 843 in an inscription in Dobrogea that seems to be in
                  Slavic
                  > "Jupan Dimitrie"
                  >
                  > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ro/8/8f/Jupan_Dimitrie.jpg
                  >
                  >
                  > III. Other Inscriptions in Dobrogea in sec X
                  >
                  >
                  > NOTE: WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THAT THE WORD IS ATTESTED IN 2
                  DIFFERENT
                  > LANGUAGES APROX. IN THE SAME HISTORICAL PERIOD AND IN THE SAME
                  > TERRITORRY => that indicated a widely utilization of it, across the
                  > language barriers
                  >
                  >
                  > IV. The name of the Dacian King Duras Diurpaneus was usually
                  > interpreted as a compound *diur- + *pa:neus
                  >
                  > If *diur- is not quite clear, "it is hard not no try" to
                  interpret
                  > -pa:neus as "Master, Lord" (in Diur-paneus)
                  >
                  > No link with the above remark:
                  > But a word *diurpaneus would gave been survived in Old Romanian
                  > as *g^urp^an- and in Romanian as *jurp^an-
                  > For this reason it was put in link with Romanian jup^an too.
                  >
                  >
                  > Marius
                  >


                  and BOILA /bo-i-l&/ is a common Romanian Name today in Transylvannia

                  a Google search will show this

                  http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=ro&q=Boila&btnG=C%c3%a3utare+Google

                  Marius
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.