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Re: [tied] Thracian Sounds

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  • Piotr Gasiorowski
    ... It is, however, weakened by the fact that Iranian [þ] is rather consistently represented as Greek (Mithradates, Parthamaspates, Pissuthnes [OPer.
    Message 1 of 49 , Sep 1, 2003
      01-09-03 00:34, Richard Wordingham wrote:

      > I'll give you a modern example, then. The Thai consonant phoneme
      > inventory is a superset of the Greek inventory, except that Thai /ng/
      > does not have a stop allophone and Thai does not have /z/. Thais can
      > mishear English [þ] as /s/; they do not hear it as /tH/, /t/ or /f/. The
      > only systematic distortion I can think of might be caused by the
      > existence of hushed affricates /tS/, /tSH/, but I think that that
      > strengthens rather than weakens my argument.

      It is, however, weakened by the fact that Iranian [þ] is rather
      consistently represented as Greek <tH> (Mithradates, Parthamaspates,
      Pissuthnes [OPer. pis^is^yaoþna-], etc.), just like [f] and [x] become
      Gk. <pH>, <kH> (fravartis^ > Phraortes, haxa:manis^ > akHaimene:s
      [Achaemenes]). An apparent exception is OPer. þatagus^ --> Sattagydia,
      but the Sattagydians were not Old Persian speakers and the Greeks may
      well have taken the name from a different Iranian dialect (OPer. þ < *k^
      corresponds to /s/ in Avestan, Median, etc. and I believe þatagu- <
      *k^m.to-gWu- '[the country of] a hundred cows'); cf. Babyl.
      sa-at-ta-gu-u, Elam. satakus^.

      Piotr
    • alex
      ... what means the word in Bulgarian? ... There is no bird known to me which is denominated after its colour. And white is the goose too. I doubt that barza
      Message 49 of 49 , Sep 7, 2003
        m_iacomi wrote:
        >>
        >> I was thinking of that but there are the problems with "breaz"
        >> (piebald) and there should be a very unusual metathesis in one of
        >> these words: barzã versus breaz.
        >
        > The word is from Bulgarian "breaz" (which could maybe be linked
        > with the same root as Albanian "(i) bardhë". Diphthong /ea/ in
        > that position can not arise from a substratal word.

        what means the word in Bulgarian?


        >> About colours: we use colours to denominate vegetables, but we
        >> do not use them for denominating birds, do we?
        >
        > Generally not, because the number of colours is limited while
        > the number of birds' species is larger enough. Though in this
        > particular case, people just did name the bird looking at its'
        > general colour. Calling biological things with colours' name is
        > not unusual in Romanian and calling this particular bird making
        > reference to its' colour is common in several languages. So
        > there is no reason preventing Romanians to call it in a similar
        > manner: it is perfectly possible and it's what happened.
        >
        > Marius Iacomi

        There is no bird known to me which is denominated after its colour. And
        white is the goose too. I doubt that "barza" meant white. I don'T have a
        better explanation but even Albanian does not help here . If in Alb.
        there should have been the word "bardhë"= stork, then one could say,
        yes, look , this is this. But there it is not a such bird. I assume that
        your "particular case" is very weak argued having just a phonetical
        similitude as basis and an wished semantical development.
        If the "zã" is a suffix like in "pupa-za", "cinte-za" then we will have
        to deal with a root as "bar-za".
        Any idea regarding birds like storks and which will relate to "bar-"?

        Alex
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