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Re: [tied] Re: Alb. kuder

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  • alex
    ... That is right. From the meaning there is gudã = bitch and a gudui speakign about dogs when they are paaring them. There is the verb a gudura = to
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 4, 2003
      g wrote:
      >> Bulg. "kutra" (as per my DEX) and Rom "cutrã" (from Bulg. "kutra"
      >> as per my DEX) [...] I don't know the meaning in Bulgarian. What
      >> about Alb. "kutë"= junge Welpe?
      >>
      >> Alex
      >
      > Compare it/them with (the Romanian regional) gudã [gud&] "bitch"
      > (synonym: "cãTea").
      >
      > George

      That is right. From the meaning there is "gudã" = bitch and "a gudui"
      speakign about dogs when they are paaring them. There is the verb "a
      gudura" = to fawn, to rub , speaking about dogs ( sometimes about people
      too). Latin "gaudeo" meant too "ich freue mich, habe etwas gern" but
      gaudeo > gudura is not possible. DEX see this word comparative with Alb.
      "gudutis".( not Alb. "guduli" = kitzeln, rom. "gâdila").
      In thracian space we have the King "Gudila" but like usual, we have no
      idea what this name could mean.
      I am not sure if I writte right now the root for Latin "gaudeo". The
      words should derive from "*ga:W-edh-éio:" or from "*ga:Wadheio:"
      Is there in Albanian an "k" from an older "g"?


      The word is not so regional I see. You know it in your region, I know it
      in my region too.
      Alex
    • tolgs001
      ... Then why did you mention Lat. gaudeo? I wasn t aware of gaudeo also meaning tickle/titillate. My dictionary say something a bit different, concerning the
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 4, 2003
        >Latin "gaudeo" meant too "ich freue mich, habe etwas gern" but
        >gaudeo > gudura is not possible. DEX see this word comparative
        >with Alb. "gudutis".(not Alb. "guduli" = kitzeln, rom. "gâdila").

        Then why did you mention Lat. gaudeo? I wasn't aware of
        gaudeo also meaning tickle/titillate.

        My dictionary say something a bit different, concerning
        the verb "gudura": "compare with Albanian *gudulis*
        and (in brackets) with Neo-Greek *gudulo*. (In the
        figurative sense, "a se gudura pe lânga cineva" means
        "to curry favor".)

        Anyway, it's less probable that <gudura-gudulis-gudulo>
        can be put into relationship with A. <kudër> and R. <guda>
        >The word is not so regional I see. You know it in
        >your region, I know it in my region too.

        I thoght I should insist on adding "regional," since
        my old dictionary doesn't include guda [gud&] "bitch"
        at all. Does your DEX (which is quite recent)?

        >Alex

        g<avdeamvs igitvr>
      • alex
        ... I did not showed the Latin gaudeo for the word gâdila or Alb. guduli but for the word gudura , Alb. guduti where both have an appropiate
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 4, 2003
          tolgs001 wrote:
          >> Latin "gaudeo" meant too "ich freue mich, habe etwas gern" but
          >> gaudeo > gudura is not possible. DEX see this word comparative
          >> with Alb. "gudutis".(not Alb. "guduli" = kitzeln, rom. "gâdila").
          >
          > Then why did you mention Lat. gaudeo? I wasn't aware of
          > gaudeo also meaning tickle/titillate.

          I did not showed the Latin "gaudeo" for the word "gâdila" or Alb.
          "guduli" but for the word "gudura", Alb. "guduti" where both have an
          appropiate meaning.Now. I hope there is no mistake in DEX for Albanian
          "gudutis". I could not find in the Alb. dictionary any "gudutis" but I
          could find "guduli". Maybe Abdullah can tell us if there is an Albanian
          "gudutis" too.

          >
          > My dictionary say something a bit different, concerning
          > the verb "gudura": "compare with Albanian *gudulis*
          > and (in brackets) with Neo-Greek *gudulo*. (In the
          > figurative sense, "a se gudura pe lânga cineva" means
          > "to curry favor".)

          a se gudura:
          about dogs: to show his happiness or attachment
          figurative about human beings: to curry favor

          > I thoght I should insist on adding "regional," since
          > my old dictionary doesn't include guda [gud&] "bitch"
          > at all. Does your DEX (which is quite recent)?
          >
          >> Alex

          in DEX "gudã" is not to find. Edition 1998

          >
          > g<avdeamvs igitvr>

          also "haida bre sã dãm din coadã":-)

          Alex
        • g
          ... Still: why? ... Perhaps it contains a typo. ... Oh, thank you for translating it from English into English. :) ... So, the recent authors, as the previous
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 5, 2003
            >I [...] showed the Latin "gaudeo" [...]
            >the word "gudura"

            Still: why?

            >I hope there is no mistake in DEX for Albanian "gudutis".

            Perhaps it contains a typo.

            > >(In the figurative sense, "a se gudura pe lânga cineva
            > >"means "to curry favor".)
            >
            >figurative about human beings: to curry favor

            Oh, thank you for translating it from English into
            English. :)

            >in DEX "gudã" is not to find. Edition 1998

            So, the recent authors, as the previous generation of
            authors, have concluded this word is such a regionalism
            that doesn't deserve being mentioned in such (otherwise
            quite substantial) dictionaries.

            >Alex

            George
          • Abdullah Konushevci
            ... ************ It s true, there is no in Albanian. Indeed, they have written wrongly the verb gudulis to be tickled, to feel ticklish .
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 5, 2003
              --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, g <george.st@g...> wrote:
              >
              > >I [...] showed the Latin "gaudeo" [...]
              > >the word "gudura"
              >
              > Still: why?
              >
              > >I hope there is no mistake in DEX for Albanian "gudutis".
              >
              > Perhaps it contains a typo.
              >
              > > >(In the figurative sense, "a se gudura pe lânga cineva
              > > >"means "to curry favor".)
              > >
              > >figurative about human beings: to curry favor
              >
              > Oh, thank you for translating it from English into
              > English. :)
              >
              > >in DEX "gudã" is not to find. Edition 1998
              >
              > So, the recent authors, as the previous generation of
              > authors, have concluded this word is such a regionalism
              > that doesn't deserve being mentioned in such (otherwise
              > quite substantial) dictionaries.
              >
              > >Alex
              >
              > George
              ************
              It's true, there is no <gudutis> in Albanian. Indeed, they have
              written wrongly the verb 'gudulis' 'to be tickled, to feel ticklish'.

              Konushevci
            • alex
              ... Because they seems to be related. In Latin gaudeo = to be happy, about persons , in Rom. there is gudura showing that is happy about dogs. The rom. word
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 5, 2003
                g wrote:
                >> I [...] showed the Latin "gaudeo" [...]
                >> the word "gudura"
                >
                > Still: why?

                Because they seems to be related. In Latin "gaudeo"= to be happy, about
                persons , in Rom. there is "gudura" showing that is happy about dogs.
                The rom. word could not derive from Latin otherways it should have seen
                as inherited.

                >
                >>> (In the figurative sense, "a se gudura pe lânga cineva
                >>> "means "to curry favor".)
                >>
                >> figurative about human beings: to curry favor
                >
                > Oh, thank you for translating it from English into
                > English. :)

                huh? do you wanted me to give you the translation into Romanian for the
                figurative sense of "gudura"?

                gudura vb I , refl.

                1) (Despre caini; la pers. 3) A-si manifesta bucuria sau atasamentul
                fata de om, dandu-i tarcoale si miscand din coada
                2) Fig. (Despr. oameni) A se ploconi , a se umili fara demnitate in fata
                cuiva, a lingusi pe cineva ( pentru a-i obtine favorurile).-Cf. Alb.
                "gudutis".

                Is this what you meant?

                Alex
              • alex
                ... This is why I asked you. In my dictionary are not regionalisms of Albnanian, but the very usual words are to find there. Now, I am not sure how to see the
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 5, 2003
                  Abdullah Konushevci wrote:
                  > ************
                  > It's true, there is no <gudutis> in Albanian. Indeed, they have
                  > written wrongly the verb 'gudulis' 'to be tickled, to feel ticklish'.
                  >
                  > Konushevci

                  This is why I asked you. In my dictionary are not regionalisms of
                  Albnanian, but the very usual words are to find there.
                  Now, I am not sure how to see the connection between these words.
                  We have:
                  Lat. : gaudeo:e (Old Latin "ga:vi:si:")
                  Rom. : gudura
                  Greek: ga:theo
                  Dorian: gotheo
                  Ionian: gauraz, gaurez ( sense of praud,
                  Lithuanian: dz^iaugiúos ( freue mich, methatesis from *gaudz^iúos)

                  All these seem to be in the same family. As for next:

                  Alb.: gudulis = to be tickled, to feel ticklish
                  Rom.: gâdila = to be tickled, to feel ticklish.

                  These do not have the meaning of happy but it seems it fits the Germanic
                  "kitzeln". Let's take a look:

                  Germ : kitzeln
                  Dutch: kittelen
                  Ohd : kittelon
                  OE : citelian
                  Swed : kitlla
                  Alb. : gudulis
                  Rom. : gâdila

                  They are related for sure, but which root? The German word is explained
                  as "warscheinlich lautnachamender oder bewegnungsnachamender".

                  Alex
                • g
                  ... Is this your own remark or do you quote anybody as saying this? (I ve never heard/read of gudurare as put into a link to gaudeo. This is why I was
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 5, 2003
                    >Because they seems to be related. In Latin "gaudeo"= to be happy, about
                    >persons , in Rom. there is "gudura" showing that is happy about dogs.

                    Is this your own remark or do you quote anybody as saying this?
                    (I've never heard/read of "gudurare" as put into a link to "gaudeo."
                    This is why I was putting these questions.)

                    >huh? do you wanted me to give you the translation into Romanian for the
                    >figurative sense of "gudura"?

                    How come you assume I weren't aware of its meaning?
                    I had posted one significant definition myself. (Although
                    my personal experience is quite nil as far as... practising
                    this kinda flattery is concerned. ;))

                    >Alex

                    George
                  • g
                    ... a gâdila is a transitive verb, therefore to tickle . To be ticled = a fi gâdilat . To be/feel ticklish = a se gâdila (note the reflexive!)
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 5, 2003
                      >Rom.: gâdila = to be tickled, to feel ticklish.

                      a gâdila is a transitive verb, therefore "to tickle".
                      "To be ticled" => "a fi gâdilat". "To be/feel ticklish"
                      => "a se gâdila" (note the reflexive!) [verb of the
                      1st kind, -are]

                      >They are related for sure, but which root? The German word is explained
                      >as "warscheinlich lautnachamender oder bewegnungsnachamender".

                      Is there nothing to be found in Pokorny's collection of
                      prehistoric mumblings?

                      >Alex

                      George
                    • alex
                      ... This is my own assumption. I don t see why they won T be related. Phoneticaly they are very apropiate , semanticaly too. For instance you have Latin
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 5, 2003
                        g wrote:
                        >> Because they seems to be related. In Latin "gaudeo"= to be happy,
                        >> about persons , in Rom. there is "gudura" showing that is happy
                        >> about dogs.
                        >
                        > Is this your own remark or do you quote anybody as saying this?
                        > (I've never heard/read of "gudurare" as put into a link to "gaudeo."
                        > This is why I was putting these questions.)

                        This is my own assumption. I don't see why they won'T be related.
                        Phoneticaly they are very apropiate , semanticaly too.

                        For instance you have Latin "querquedulos" which is almost identicaly
                        with Rom. "corcodel" having the same meaning. However, as in the case of
                        "gudura", the phonetic lwas established do not allow you to derive the
                        "corcodel" from "querque:dula", thus DEX gives it as onomatopeic from
                        "corcod" . I am not aware of this "corcod" , but this shoulöd be my
                        fault I don'T know a such onomatopea.
                        The Latin word is given from PIE *qerq-, or *qreq-, or *qro:q-
                        Other IE cognates are:
                        Greek: korkoras
                        Old Irish: cerc
                        Old Prus.: kerko
                        Old Indic: karkarah, kr.kava:kuh

                        Pedersen compare it with Lith. "kverks^le"; Let. "kva:rks^et"


                        Alex
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