Re: [tied] Vladimir
- --- Piotr Gasiorowski <piotr.gasiorowski@...>
>*****GK: ARDAGAST is the recorded name of a 6th c.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "george knysh" <gknysh@...>
> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Vladimir
> > > (1) The old forms are directly attested in the
> earliest documented Slavic names (Dargomir-, etc.),
> > GK: Anything beside the (possibly misspelled)
> Bulgarian DARGAMEROS? We have a Prince DOROGOROG of
> the later 9th c. mentioned in the Cividale Gospel.
> He is assumed to have come on his pilgrimage from
> the Carpathians.
> (Piotr)<ardagastos> (= <radogostU>)
"Sklav" leader. It is not certain that this is a
Slavic name (B. Struminski, "Were the Antes Eastern
Slavs?" , HARVARD UKRAINIAN STUDIES, III-IV
(1979-1980), pt.2, pp. 786ff. argued that it wasn't,
and suggested a Gothic provenance.) Also: if the
original ARDAGAST is a garbled RADAGAST, it is
comparable to RADAGAISUS (+405). And the -GAST ending
seems quite Germanic ( cf. ARBOGAST). Note that
ARDAGAST's "Sklav" colleagues (PERIGAST, DAURIT) bore
names whose Slavic identity is equally
>(Piotr) <baldimer> (= <volodime^r>, <vladimirU>,etc.)
******GK: Would you provide a source for this
BALDIMER? I only have LAODOMUR from the "Annales
> (Piotr) <perslaban> (= <pereslavU>, <pre^slavU>,etc.)
******GK: Khan Omurtag's 821 foundation which became
Simeon's capital? What is the date of this Greek
"perslaban"? Would it be anthroponymic in origin?
PERSLAV (like PEREMYSL)?*****
NB: I'm not questioning the basic conclusion, just
looking at some of the peripheral evidence. (George)
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- V. Karloukovski wrote:
> --- In email@example.com, "alex_lycos" <altamix@l...> wrote:I suppose you connect ronka with ruka and narendja with what?
>> Since in Rom. is just Vlad and Dragomir ( I exclude derivative
>> as Vladescu, Dragomirescu, etc.) one will learn that the first
>> borrowings from slavic into Romanian should be after IX century
>> In which period of time is supposed to have died out the OCS-
> if you mean the dialect around Thessalonika, it is probably still
> spoken there, althought by few people. Some dialects in northern
> Greece still have ronka (hand), narendja (to put in order), monzh
> (man) etc. (compare to Bulgarian r&ka, naredja, m&zh). But there are
> no cases, dual number, etc. You won't find a real 'OCS dialect' left,
> of course
I guess these are just Romanin words borrowed there in the time the
South Slavs still have had the nasal vowels.
Of course, the words you mentioned here are still alive and utilised in
romanian and aromanian in their original form.