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Re: [tied] Vladimir

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  • george knysh
    ... *****GK: ARDAGAST is the recorded name of a 6th c. Sklav leader. It is not certain that this is a Slavic name (B. Struminski, Were the Antes Eastern
    Message 1 of 56 , Mar 31, 2003
      --- Piotr Gasiorowski <piotr.gasiorowski@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "george knysh" <gknysh@...>
      > To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:04 PM
      > Subject: Re: [tied] Vladimir
      >
      >
      >
      > > > (1) The old forms are directly attested in the
      > earliest documented Slavic names (Dargomir-, etc.),
      > >
      > > GK: Anything beside the (possibly misspelled)
      > Bulgarian DARGAMEROS? We have a Prince DOROGOROG of
      > the later 9th c. mentioned in the Cividale Gospel.
      > He is assumed to have come on his pilgrimage from
      > the Carpathians.
      >
      > (Piotr)<ardagastos> (= <radogostU>)

      *****GK: ARDAGAST is the recorded name of a 6th c.
      "Sklav" leader. It is not certain that this is a
      Slavic name (B. Struminski, "Were the Antes Eastern
      Slavs?" , HARVARD UKRAINIAN STUDIES, III-IV
      (1979-1980), pt.2, pp. 786ff. argued that it wasn't,
      and suggested a Gothic provenance.) Also: if the
      original ARDAGAST is a garbled RADAGAST, it is
      comparable to RADAGAISUS (+405). And the -GAST ending
      seems quite Germanic ( cf. ARBOGAST). Note that
      ARDAGAST's "Sklav" colleagues (PERIGAST, DAURIT) bore
      names whose Slavic identity is equally
      problematic.****

      >(Piotr) <baldimer> (= <volodime^r>, <vladimirU>,
      etc.)

      ******GK: Would you provide a source for this
      BALDIMER? I only have LAODOMUR from the "Annales
      Fuldenses".*****

      > (Piotr) <perslaban> (= <pereslavU>, <pre^slavU>,
      etc.)

      ******GK: Khan Omurtag's 821 foundation which became
      Simeon's capital? What is the date of this Greek
      "perslaban"? Would it be anthroponymic in origin?
      PERSLAV (like PEREMYSL)?*****

      NB: I'm not questioning the basic conclusion, just
      looking at some of the peripheral evidence. (George)






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    • alex_lycos
      ... I suppose you connect ronka with ruka and narendja with what? I guess these are just Romanin words borrowed there in the time the South Slavs still have
      Message 56 of 56 , Apr 2 11:09 AM
        V. Karloukovski wrote:
        > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex_lycos" <altamix@l...> wrote:
        >
        >> Since in Rom. is just Vlad and Dragomir ( I exclude derivative
        >> as Vladescu, Dragomirescu, etc.) one will learn that the first
        >> borrowings from slavic into Romanian should be after IX century
        >> In which period of time is supposed to have died out the OCS-
        >> dialect?
        >
        >
        > if you mean the dialect around Thessalonika, it is probably still
        > spoken there, althought by few people. Some dialects in northern
        > Greece still have ronka (hand), narendja (to put in order), monzh
        > (man) etc. (compare to Bulgarian r&ka, naredja, m&zh). But there are
        > no cases, dual number, etc. You won't find a real 'OCS dialect' left,
        > of course
        >
        >
        > Regards,
        > Vassil

        I suppose you connect ronka with ruka and narendja with what?
        I guess these are just Romanin words borrowed there in the time the
        South Slavs still have had the nasal vowels.
        Of course, the words you mentioned here are still alive and utilised in
        romanian and aromanian in their original form.

        regards,

        alex
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