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Re: [tied] PIE fire god

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  • João Simões Lopes Filho
    Compare the roles of Prometheus, Agni and Loki. You will see many common traits. Joao SL ... From: Ravi Chaudhary To:
    Message 1 of 26 , Dec 1, 2002
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      Compare the roles of Prometheus, Agni and Loki. You will see many common
      traits.

      Joao SL
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Ravi Chaudhary <ravi9@...>
      To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 3:03 AM
      Subject: Re: [tied] PIE fire god


      --- In cybalist@y..., João Simões Lopes Filho <jodan99@u...> wrote:
      > Prometheus was also called Ithax (<*idh-nk- "to burn"). This seems
      to be a
      > good candidate for the older IE name of Prometheus, since he had
      strong
      > links to the PIE fire-god, messenger and trickster.
      >
      > Joao SL

      Why would the PIE fire god be taken as a messenger and trickster ??

      Ravi.






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    • Jean Kelly
      ... good candidate for the older IE name of Prometheus, since he had strong links to the PIE fire-god, messenger and trickster. That looks very interesting -
      Message 2 of 26 , Dec 1, 2002
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        João Simões Lopes Filho wrote:
        >>Prometheus was also called Ithax (<*idh-nk- "to burn"). This seems to be a
        good candidate for the older IE name of Prometheus, since he had strong
        links to the PIE fire-god, messenger and trickster.

        That looks very interesting - I'd not come across it before. Would you have
        a reference?

        Ravi Chaudhary wrote:
        >>What is the Date of the Greek legend acording to Graves or anyone
        else ?

        AFAIK, the earliest account of Prometheus and Epithemeus appears in Hesiod's
        "Works and Days"; Hesiod's dates are believed to be 8th cent. BC.

        Ravi Chaudhary wrote:
        >>Why would the PIE fire god be taken as a messenger and trickster ??

        João Simões Lopes Filho wrote:
        >>Compare the roles of Prometheus, Agni and Loki. You will see many common
        traits.

        Prometheus and Agni have often been compared, of course, because of the
        supposed common connection with fire. I suppose that Loki and Prometheus
        share the fate of being trapped for a long time by means of a rock.

        Jean Kelly
      • Piotr Gasiorowski
        ... From: Jean Kelly To: Cybalist Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [tied] Pramantha/Prometheus: a false etymology? ... ... and in Hesiod s
        Message 3 of 26 , Dec 1, 2002
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Jean Kelly
          To: Cybalist
          Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 12:43 PM
          Subject: Re: [tied] Pramantha/Prometheus: a false etymology?


          > AFAIK, the earliest account of Prometheus and Epithemeus appears in Hesiod's "Works and Days"; Hesiod's dates are believed to be 8th cent. BC.

          ... and in Hesiod's _Theogony_, of course. Prometheus was also known to Aesop in the 6th c. BC. Aeschylus' Promethean trilogy, where the myth was further elaborated, was written in the early 5th c. BC.

          Piotr
        • João Simões Lopes Filho
          KARL KERENYI - Die Mythologie der Griechen - Band I: Die Götter-und Menschleitsgesichten (Portuguese translation), chapter XIII (he cites Hesychius
          Message 4 of 26 , Dec 1, 2002
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            KARL KERENYI - Die Mythologie der Griechen - Band I: Die Götter-und
            Menschleitsgesichten (Portuguese translation), chapter XIII (he cites
            Hesychius Lexicographus as source).

            Joao SL
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Jean Kelly <jeffcob@...>
            To: Cybalist <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 9:43 AM
            Subject: Re: [tied] Pramantha/Prometheus: a false etymology?


            > João Simões Lopes Filho wrote:
            > >>Prometheus was also called Ithax (<*idh-nk- "to burn"). This seems to be
            a
            > good candidate for the older IE name of Prometheus, since he had strong
            > links to the PIE fire-god, messenger and trickster.
            >
            > That looks very interesting - I'd not come across it before. Would you
            have
            > a reference?
            >
            > Ravi Chaudhary wrote:
            > >>What is the Date of the Greek legend acording to Graves or anyone
            > else ?
            >
            > AFAIK, the earliest account of Prometheus and Epithemeus appears in
            Hesiod's
            > "Works and Days"; Hesiod's dates are believed to be 8th cent. BC.
            >
            > Ravi Chaudhary wrote:
            > >>Why would the PIE fire god be taken as a messenger and trickster ??
            >
            > João Simões Lopes Filho wrote:
            > >>Compare the roles of Prometheus, Agni and Loki. You will see many common
            > traits.
            >
            > Prometheus and Agni have often been compared, of course, because of the
            > supposed common connection with fire. I suppose that Loki and Prometheus
            > share the fate of being trapped for a long time by means of a rock.
            >
            > Jean Kelly
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Ravi Chaudhary
            ... common traits. Prometheus and Agni have often been compared, of course, because of the supposed common connection with fire. I suppose that Loki and
            Message 5 of 26 , Dec 1, 2002
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              --- In cybalist@y..., "Jean Kelly" <jeffcob@o...> wrote:
              > João Simões Lopes Filho wrote:

              Ravi Chaudhary wrote:
              >>Why would the PIE fire god be taken as a messenger and trickster ??

              João Simões Lopes Filho wrote:
              >>Compare the roles of Prometheus, Agni and Loki. You will see many
              common
              traits.

              Prometheus and Agni have often been compared, of course, because of
              the
              supposed common connection with fire. I suppose that Loki and
              Prometheus
              share the fate of being trapped for a long time by means of a rock.

              Jean Kelly
              *********

              None of this gives any suggestion of why Loki, Promotheus and Agni
              would be thought of as
              messengers and more especially tricksters.??


              besides you probaly need to understanf how Agni is seen from our
              world view.

              Agni literally Fire, is the symbolism ofthe force of creation
              , the creator himself.

              The lighting of the fire or rather the burning flame, acts as a
              medium to the creator, and is also the creator itself, the cycle of
              creation and destruction, the cosmic dance ,the eternal cycle.

              To Talk of a Fire -God, is meaningless, like talking of a thunder god
              or a god of cattle.

              Agni( fire) is the supreme God and the medium to the God the creator.

              The rest become spin offs.

              Thus in the vedic/ hindu concept we find Shiva,the supreme god of
              Creation and destruction, the eternal cycle again, oft represented as
              a pillar of Fire.

              Loki fits into another mode, a trickser, a prankster, and how you
              would relate him to Promotheus I would like to know.


              Ravi
            • Glen Gordon
              ... Perhaps I can help. I try to think, whenever I can, in neolithic terms because this is the mindset that we need in order to fully understand mythical
              Message 6 of 26 , Dec 1, 2002
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                Ravi:
                >None of this gives any suggestion of why Loki, Promotheus and Agni
                >would be thought of as messengers and more especially tricksters.??

                Perhaps I can help. I try to think, whenever I can, in neolithic terms
                because this is the mindset that we need in order to fully understand
                mythical equations such as these. Throw away any knowledge you have of
                VCRs, camcorders and computers. Throw away anything after Copernicus,
                in fact. We won't be needing any of that where we're going. We'll be
                delving into the nether regions of prehistoric thought. Come, hold my
                hand...

                Now, in case you didn't realize, "fire" exists in all three realms of the
                cosmos. It exists in the sky (ie: the sun), it also exists on land
                obviously. It even exists in the watery underworld.

                Since "fire" is the element that links the three realms together, it can
                be seen as a "messenger" or "traveller" between worlds. Ritualistic
                burning, then, can be seen as a means of communicating with the otherwordly.

                On the other hand, there is the age-old saying "Don't play with fire". Most
                of us have this primal understanding of the potentially harmful outcomes of
                fire, especially when it is not respected. Hence, it is a "trickster" since
                fire can turn on you at any moment if you're not careful.


                - gLeN


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              • CeiSerith@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/1/2002 5:52:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... I m sorry, but I m not seeing them. What would you say they are? David Fickett-Wilbar
                Message 7 of 26 , Dec 1, 2002
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                  In a message dated 12/1/2002 5:52:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, jodan99@... writes:


                  Compare the roles of Prometheus, Agni and Loki. You will see many common
                  traits.


                     I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing them.  What would you say they are?

                  David Fickett-Wilbar
                • tgpedersen
                  ... derived from ... Feuers ... Manfred. 1962. ... Heidelberg: vol. ... Wissowa ... B.G. ... was. ... Greek: Forethought and Afterthought , respectively.
                  Message 8 of 26 , Dec 2, 2002
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                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Jean Kelly
                    > To: cybalist@y...
                    > Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 5:24 PM
                    > Subject: [tied] Pramantha/Prometheus: a false etymology?
                    >
                    >
                    > It's often been claimed that the Greek name, Prometheus, was
                    derived from
                    > Pramantha, a fire-stick [Kuhn, Adalbert (1886), Die Herabkunft des
                    Feuers
                    > und des Gottertranks, 2nd ed., Gutersloh: 15 ff. Mayrhofer,
                    Manfred. 1962.
                    > Kurzgefasstes etymologisches Worterbuch des Altindischen.
                    Heidelberg: vol.
                    > 2, 567 f; 578 ff.] But the theory has also been attacked [Pauly-
                    Wissowa
                    > Real Encyclopaedie Vol. XXXIII (i) (1957) p. 690. Roscher, W.H.:
                    > Ausführliches Lexikon der Griechischen und Romischen Mythologie,
                    B.G.
                    > Teubner, Leipzig 1884-1937: 3033-3034].
                    >
                    > As I'm not a linguist myself, I wondered what Cybalist's opinion
                    was.
                    >
                    > Jean Kelly
                    >

                    --- In cybalist@y..., Piotr Gasiorowski <piotr.gasiorowski@i...>
                    wrote:
                    > <prome:tHeus> and <epime:tHeus> are telling names in
                    Greek: 'Forethought' and 'Afterthought', respectively. The etymology
                    is obvious, cf. Gk. prome:tHe:s 'provident, thinking in advance'.
                    Skt. pramantHa- (derived from a verb meaning 'stir violently') does
                    mean 'fire-drill', but it doesn't quite match "Prometheus" formally;
                    nor does it account for "Epimetheus". The similarity, so cherished by
                    theosophists, is accidental, except for the <pro->/<pra-> part, which
                    is the same inherited prefix in both cases (PIE *pro- 'forth').
                    >
                    > Piotr
                    >

                    1) Did the "stick"/"stir" word survive in Greek?

                    2) If not, how can one be sure that the Greek Prometheus is not a
                    folk etymology of a forgotten meaningless word (and Epimetheus added
                    for systematic completeness)?

                    Torsten
                  • tgpedersen
                    ... trickster ?? ... god ... creator. ... as ... The name Loki has been compared to German Lohe, Sw låge flame (at least by Wagner, if not by more serious
                    Message 9 of 26 , Dec 2, 2002
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                      --- In cybalist@y..., "Ravi Chaudhary" <ravi9@h...> wrote:
                      > --- In cybalist@y..., "Jean Kelly" <jeffcob@o...> wrote:
                      > > João Simões Lopes Filho wrote:
                      >
                      > Ravi Chaudhary wrote:
                      > >>Why would the PIE fire god be taken as a messenger and
                      trickster ??
                      >
                      > João Simões Lopes Filho wrote:
                      > >>Compare the roles of Prometheus, Agni and Loki. You will see many
                      > common
                      > traits.
                      >
                      > Prometheus and Agni have often been compared, of course, because of
                      > the
                      > supposed common connection with fire. I suppose that Loki and
                      > Prometheus
                      > share the fate of being trapped for a long time by means of a rock.
                      >
                      > Jean Kelly
                      > *********
                      >
                      > None of this gives any suggestion of why Loki, Promotheus and Agni
                      > would be thought of as
                      > messengers and more especially tricksters.??
                      >
                      >
                      > besides you probaly need to understanf how Agni is seen from our
                      > world view.
                      >
                      > Agni literally Fire, is the symbolism ofthe force of creation
                      > , the creator himself.
                      >
                      > The lighting of the fire or rather the burning flame, acts as a
                      > medium to the creator, and is also the creator itself, the cycle of
                      > creation and destruction, the cosmic dance ,the eternal cycle.
                      >
                      > To Talk of a Fire -God, is meaningless, like talking of a thunder
                      god
                      > or a god of cattle.
                      >
                      > Agni( fire) is the supreme God and the medium to the God the
                      creator.
                      >
                      > The rest become spin offs.
                      >
                      > Thus in the vedic/ hindu concept we find Shiva,the supreme god of
                      > Creation and destruction, the eternal cycle again, oft represented
                      as
                      > a pillar of Fire.
                      >
                      > Loki fits into another mode, a trickser, a prankster, and how you
                      > would relate him to Promotheus I would like to know.
                      >
                      >
                      > Ravi

                      The name Loki has been compared to German Lohe, Sw låge "flame" (at
                      least by Wagner, if not by more serious folk).

                      Torsten
                    • João Simões Lopes Filho
                      All of them were tricksters, messengers, and related to fire, helpers of mankind, rivals of Storm Gods; Agni and Loki were shape-shifting gods. I think the
                      Message 10 of 26 , Dec 2, 2002
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                        All of them were tricksters, messengers, and related to fire, helpers of mankind, rivals of Storm Gods; Agni and Loki were shape-shifting gods. I think the role of Prometheus was superseeded by Hermes.
                         
                        Joao SL
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 3:58 AM
                        Subject: Re: [tied] PIE fire god

                        In a message dated 12/1/2002 5:52:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, jodan99@... writes:


                        Compare the roles of Prometheus, Agni and Loki. You will see many common
                        traits.


                           I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing them.  What would you say they are?

                        David Fickett-Wilbar


                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      • Glen Gordon
                        ... Yes, shape-shifting relates to deceit or betrayal , which relates to the way in which fire can burn you if not careful. As well, one may think of Storm
                        Message 11 of 26 , Dec 2, 2002
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                          Joao:
                          >All of them were tricksters, messengers, and related to fire, helpers of
                          >mankind, rivals of Storm Gods; Agni and Loki were shape-shifting gods. I
                          >think the role of Prometheus was superseeded by Hermes.

                          Yes, shape-shifting relates to "deceit" or "betrayal", which
                          relates to the way in which fire can burn you if not careful.
                          As well, one may think of Storm chasing after Lightning (or
                          rather, heavenly Fire).


                          - gLeN


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                        • João Simões Lopes Filho
                          And there s also the obvious theme of Fire x Rain. The conflict between Storm and Fire gods can be seen in Prometheus x Zeus, Indra x Agni and Loki x Thorr.
                          Message 12 of 26 , Dec 3, 2002
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                            And there's also the obvious theme of Fire x Rain.
                            The conflict between Storm and Fire gods can be seen in Prometheus x Zeus,
                            Indra x Agni and Loki x Thorr.
                            And I think that some traits of these fire gods were transferred to the
                            Catholic Devil.

                            Joao SL
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Glen Gordon <glengordon01@...>
                            To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 3:04 AM
                            Subject: Re: [tied] PIE fire god


                            >
                            > Joao:
                            > >All of them were tricksters, messengers, and related to fire, helpers of
                            > >mankind, rivals of Storm Gods; Agni and Loki were shape-shifting gods. I
                            > >think the role of Prometheus was superseeded by Hermes.
                            >
                            > Yes, shape-shifting relates to "deceit" or "betrayal", which
                            > relates to the way in which fire can burn you if not careful.
                            > As well, one may think of Storm chasing after Lightning (or
                            > rather, heavenly Fire).
                            >
                            >
                            > - gLeN
                            >
                            >
                            > _________________________________________________________________
                            > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
                            > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                          • anthonyappleyard
                            ... The Hindu fire-god Agni does not seen to have been a trickster, from what I know of Hinduism.
                            Message 13 of 26 , Dec 3, 2002
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                              Joao wrote:-:
                              > All of them were tricksters, messengers, and related to fire,
                              > helpers of mankind, rivals of Storm Gods; Agni and Loki were shape-
                              > shifting gods. I think the role of Prometheus was superseeded by
                              > Hermes.

                              --- In cybalist@y..., "Glen Gordon" <glengordon01@h...> wrote:
                              > Yes, shape-shifting relates to "deceit" or "betrayal", which
                              > relates to the way in which fire can burn you if not careful.
                              > As well, one may think of Storm chasing after Lightning (or
                              > rather, heavenly Fire).

                              The Hindu fire-god Agni does not seen to have been a trickster, from
                              what I know of Hinduism.
                            • CeiSerith@aol.com
                              In a message dated 12/2/02 6:13:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, jodan99@uol.com.br writes:
                              Message 14 of 26 , Dec 4, 2002
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                                In a message dated 12/2/02 6:13:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                jodan99@... writes:

                                << All of them were tricksters,

                                Perhaps I am simply not informed sufficiently regarding Agni. In what
                                sense is he a trickster?

                                messengers,
                                and related to fire, helpers of mankind,

                                Most gods are helpers of mankind. How is Loki one?

                                rivals of Storm Gods; Agni and Loki were shape-shifting gods. I think the
                                role of Prometheus was superseeded by Hermes. >>

                                Loki and Prometheus were both unworshipped, and both outsiders to the
                                great gods. Agni, on the other hand, was of course worshipped intensely as
                                one of the highest of the gods. I am willing to admit the possibility of a
                                connection between the first two, but Agni does not seem to me to fit into
                                this pattern. At the very least, I find it hard to understand how a god of
                                fire could, in the IE world, be so "demoted" that he would become
                                unworshipped, be an outsider, and be so difficult to identify.

                                David Fickett-Wilbar
                              • João Simões Lopes Filho
                                The fire-god traits in Loki were contaminated by another traits of a kind of deity like Greek Ares and Ossetic Syrdon (in this case nor a deity, but an epic
                                Message 15 of 26 , Dec 4, 2002
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                                  The fire-god traits in Loki were "contaminated" by another traits of a kind
                                  of deity like Greek Ares and Ossetic Syrdon (in this case nor a deity, but
                                  an epic encarnation).

                                  Joao SL
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: <CeiSerith@...>
                                  To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 2:31 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [tied] PIE fire god


                                  > In a message dated 12/2/02 6:13:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                  > jodan99@... writes:
                                  >
                                  > << All of them were tricksters,
                                  >
                                  > Perhaps I am simply not informed sufficiently regarding Agni. In what
                                  > sense is he a trickster?
                                  >
                                  > messengers,
                                  > and related to fire, helpers of mankind,
                                  >
                                  > Most gods are helpers of mankind. How is Loki one?
                                  >
                                  > rivals of Storm Gods; Agni and Loki were shape-shifting gods. I think the
                                  > role of Prometheus was superseeded by Hermes. >>
                                  >
                                  > Loki and Prometheus were both unworshipped, and both outsiders to the
                                  > great gods. Agni, on the other hand, was of course worshipped intensely
                                  as
                                  > one of the highest of the gods. I am willing to admit the possibility of
                                  a
                                  > connection between the first two, but Agni does not seem to me to fit into
                                  > this pattern. At the very least, I find it hard to understand how a god
                                  of
                                  > fire could, in the IE world, be so "demoted" that he would become
                                  > unworshipped, be an outsider, and be so difficult to identify.
                                  >
                                  > David Fickett-Wilbar
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >
                                  >
                                • CeiSerith@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 12/4/02 6:04:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, jodan99@uol.com.br writes:
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Dec 4, 2002
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                                    In a message dated 12/4/02 6:04:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                    jodan99@... writes:

                                    << The fire-god traits in Loki were "contaminated" by another traits of a kind
                                    of deity like Greek Ares and Ossetic Syrdon (in this case nor a deity, but
                                    an epic encarnation). >>

                                    I'm confused as to the relevance of my objection that Agni doesn't share
                                    the most important characteristics of Loki and Prometheus. I am also
                                    wondering what evidence you have for this "contamination."

                                    David Fickett-Wilbar
                                  • João Simões Lopes Filho
                                    Because the main deities are complex characters, with a crossing of many influences. ... From: To: Sent:
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Dec 5, 2002
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                                      Because the main deities are complex characters, with a crossing of many
                                      influences.
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: <CeiSerith@...>
                                      To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:29 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [tied] PIE fire god


                                      > In a message dated 12/4/02 6:04:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                      > jodan99@... writes:
                                      >
                                      > << The fire-god traits in Loki were "contaminated" by another traits of a
                                      kind
                                      > of deity like Greek Ares and Ossetic Syrdon (in this case nor a deity,
                                      but
                                      > an epic encarnation). >>
                                      >
                                      > I'm confused as to the relevance of my objection that Agni doesn't
                                      share
                                      > the most important characteristics of Loki and Prometheus. I am also
                                      > wondering what evidence you have for this "contamination."
                                      >
                                      > David Fickett-Wilbar
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • mrcaws
                                      ... In what ... think the ... to the ... intensely as ... possibility of a ... fit into ... a god of ... One possible connection- Both Prometheus and Agni were
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Dec 5, 2002
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                                        --- In cybalist@y..., CeiSerith@a... wrote:
                                        > In a message dated 12/2/02 6:13:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                        > jodan99@u... writes:
                                        >
                                        > << All of them were tricksters,
                                        >
                                        > Perhaps I am simply not informed sufficiently regarding Agni.
                                        In what
                                        > sense is he a trickster?
                                        >
                                        > messengers,
                                        > and related to fire, helpers of mankind,
                                        >
                                        > Most gods are helpers of mankind. How is Loki one?
                                        >
                                        > rivals of Storm Gods; Agni and Loki were shape-shifting gods. I
                                        think the
                                        > role of Prometheus was superseeded by Hermes. >>
                                        >
                                        > Loki and Prometheus were both unworshipped, and both outsiders
                                        to the
                                        > great gods. Agni, on the other hand, was of course worshipped
                                        intensely as
                                        > one of the highest of the gods. I am willing to admit the
                                        possibility of a
                                        > connection between the first two, but Agni does not seem to me to
                                        fit into
                                        > this pattern. At the very least, I find it hard to understand how
                                        a god of
                                        > fire could, in the IE world, be so "demoted" that he would become
                                        > unworshipped, be an outsider, and be so difficult to identify.
                                        >
                                        > David Fickett-Wilbar


                                        One possible connection-
                                        Both Prometheus and Agni were instrumental in the institution of
                                        sacrifice(Prometheus' role in the sacrifice at Mecone)

                                        Cort Williams
                                      • Ravi Chaudhary
                                        ... many ... traits of a ... deity, ... doesn t ... also ... http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Dec 6, 2002
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                                          --- In cybalist@y..., João Simões Lopes Filho <jodan99@u...> wrote:
                                          > Because the main deities are complex characters, with a crossing of
                                          many
                                          > influences.
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: <CeiSerith@a...>
                                          > To: <cybalist@y...>
                                          > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:29 AM
                                          > Subject: Re: [tied] PIE fire god
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > In a message dated 12/4/02 6:04:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                          > > jodan99@u... writes:
                                          > >
                                          > > << The fire-god traits in Loki were "contaminated" by another
                                          traits of a
                                          > kind
                                          > > of deity like Greek Ares and Ossetic Syrdon (in this case nor a
                                          deity,
                                          > but
                                          > > an epic encarnation). >>
                                          > >
                                          > > I'm confused as to the relevance of my objection that Agni
                                          doesn't
                                          > share
                                          > > the most important characteristics of Loki and Prometheus. I am
                                          also
                                          > > wondering what evidence you have for this "contamination."
                                          > >
                                          > > David Fickett-Wilbar
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > >
                                          > >
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