Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: The phonetic value of PIE *h3 and the 'drink' root.

Expand Messages
  • richardwordingham
    ... ... I believe that in this hypothetical context the fuller form would be **peh3t. The most voiced trajectory for the zero grade would have been
    Message 1 of 34 , Jul 11, 2002
      --- In cybalist@y..., "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@h...> wrote:
      <Snip>
      > If some PIE verbal or nominal root contains the ablaut vowel
      > [e/o/nothing], and that
      >
      > PIE -peH-/-poH-/-pH- -> -pe:-/-po:-/-b'-
      > (applicable also to other stops of course)
      >
      > does that mean that (verbal or nominal) root would end up as a
      > pradigm with a "mixed" root (-p-t-/-p-d-) which might be levelled
      > either way?

      I believe that in this hypothetical context the fuller form would be
      **peh3t. The most voiced trajectory for the zero grade would have
      been ph3t > bh3t > bt > pt. However, the reduced grade of *pod-
      'foot' (no laryngeal!) was pd > bd, with bd- > ped- initially.
      Piotr has posted, in
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/2630, examples of
      Sanskrit compounds with a non-initial element 'bd' for foot.

      I don't know of any levelling arising from such construction, but I
      wouldn't be surprised to see the arguments (e.g.
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/4674) over Greek
      ogdoos 'eighth' (compared with okto: 'eight') resurface.

      Can we still write xW for h3 and claim that 'x' is a substitute for
      gamma as well as chi?

      Richard.

      ** indicates a reconstruction I don't believe.
    • Jens Elmegård Rasmussen
      ... der ... It does not seem to have been given any sensible explanation. But since /p/ is restricted to places with thematic vowel *-o-, it looks very much
      Message 34 of 34 , Oct 30, 2006
        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
        >
        > Krause-Thomas, 201
        > "Das Wort für 'machen' . . . zeigt in A einen merkwürdigen Wechsel
        der
        > Formen ya- und ypa-, wobei ypa- in den Formen mit idg. Themavokal o
        > steht. In A sonst normal nach Kl. III: Akt. ypam, yat, yas.; ypamäs,
        > *yac, ypeñc. Med. ypama:r, yata:r, yatär; ypamtär, *yacär, ypantär.
        > PPs. ypant; ypama:n; Ger. I yal; Inf. yatsi."
        >
        > Metathesis py- > yp- ?

        It does not seem to have been given any sensible explanation. But
        since /p/ is restricted to places with thematic vowel *-o-, it looks
        very much like a matter of palatalization, i.e. some phoneme has been
        lost before *-e-, but retained as /p/ before *-o-. No known (morpho)
        phoneme does this regularly in Tocharian, so it looks like a
        spontaneous change, and it *is* a lone example. The obvious candidate
        is *-w- which sometimes alternates with <p>, and is palatalized to y
        in B (though not in A, cf. B yente, A want 'wind'). It will seem that
        the combination *y-w'- (with palatalized w before *-e-) was
        assimilated to *y-y-. The root vowel Toch.A -a- is Proto-Toch. /æ/
        from earlier *-o- or *-e:-, of which the latter is the obvious
        solution, for /e:/ can arise through contraction of e+e across a lost
        *-y- (B trey, A tre 'three' from *træs < *tre:s < IE *tréy-es). So we
        have *yew-e- > *yew'-e- > *yey-e- > *yee- > *ye:- > *yæ- > TA ya-.
        And, with thematic vowel *-o-, *yew-o- > *yäwæ- > *ywæ- > ypa- (with
        something like [b]?).
        So, it will seem that *yew-o-/*yew-e- can yield Toch.A ypa-/ya-
        without much fuss. As for the identity of the root, the best
        comparandum is probably Skt. yu- 'connect, hold tight, harness' with
        prs. yáuti and yuváti. The structure *yéw-e/o- could be the original
        subjunctive. Perhaps the semantic development from 'connect' to 'make'
        goes via something like 'knit'.

        Jens
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.