[cybalist] Re: Odp: Cowpokes and Centaurs.
junk----- Original Message -----From: Alexander StolbovSent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 5:48 PMSubject: [cybalist] Re: Cowpokes and Centaurs.Mark Odegard wrote:<<Whatever the case, Alexander and Piotr seem to be recapturing a genuine IE *word* [*kent- stem], one used in the management of cattle. I'd be interested to see what Sanskrit or Avestan might turn up in way of a cognate.>>Does anybody have access to original texts of Avesta and Atharvaveda?The word 'goad' (in Russian strekalo) is mentionen in Atharvaveda III, 25.In the 2nd fragard of Videvdat (Vendidad) it is told how Yima extended the earth striking it with 2 sacral tools. Usually these tools are translated as 'arrow' and 'golden lash'. However there is a variant of translation 'whip' and 'goad'.It would would be interesting to see what literally is written in Avestan and Vedic.Alexander StolbovI don't think there are any attested cognates of *kent- in Vedic. One frequent word for 'goad' is pratoda- (m.), cf. tudati 'hit', todayati 'goad, prick' (the same root seems to underlie Latin tundo, tutudi, tu:sum 'pound, thump'. Another one is aSTra: (f.; ST for a postalveolar cluster) which, could also mean 'whip', I believe, and is very similar to (perhaps confusible with) astra- (m./n.) 'dart, arrow; bow'. It must be the word you're looking for, though I can't consult the Atharvaveda now. The 'arrow' word is of course a member of the great *xak- 'sharp' family (cf. Slavic ostr-); I suspect (very tentatively, since I can't work out the details without more checking) that aSTra: may be derived from *xag- 'lead, drive' (Latin ago etc.).Piotr
- ÿþ<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content="text/html; charset=unicode" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mark wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=-1>In early Greece, at least, sheep and goats were the main animals. And anywhere sheep and goats are kept, even today, the shepherds and goatherds usually work on foot -- and always, it seems, in conjunction with dogs.</FONT></FONT> </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>As something of a specialist on Cretan shepherds (my book about them is to be published soon in Athens), I'd like to add a little bit in this line of thought.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>It's true, they work on foot (the one I know who works riding a donkey because he is so fat is laughed about by others), but there are many who use the dogs only around the sheepfold, not for rustling. They manage large herds of 800 animals with two (sometimes even one) shepherds throwing stones and skillfully using their 'verga', the wooden shepherds' crook. From there I suppose they use the word 'xylono' (from xylo, wood) for moving the herd from a standing position. These words may well be very old in use - their vocabulary often resembles Ancient Greek (e.g. they call a goat still 'aiga', not 'katsika' as other Greeks do).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Greetings from Crete</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Sabine</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- "piotr gasiorowski" <gpiot-@...> wrote:
I would like to apologize for this rather late reaction, but it's today
that I came across this newsgroup.
>I'm not sure in what other branches cognates of *kent- survive.Perhaps other >Cybalist memebers could help.
As far as I'm concerned, the PIE stem *kent can be analyzed as ken-t-
(where *-t- is a very productive suffix in IE), with *ken- as a more
generic root meaning 'cut' etc. So the obvious descendant has happily
survived in nearly all Slavic languages - I mean Russian chiast' and
other reflexes of Common-Slavic *cheNsti 'part,share'<'something cut
away (for)'<(absolutely regularly from)*kent-t-is (sorry for
transcription, but you know what I mean).
- One more obvious cognate of the 'kentron' et al. is Lithuanian
kente:ti/kesti (e nasal) 'to suffer'<'to suffer as from pain'. Surprisingly,
in Lithuanian both roots of 'kentauros' are left nearly intact: 'kent-' in
kenteti and 'taur-' in tauras '(wild) ox'.