Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [tied] D. Ringe's IE Tree (1998)

Expand Messages
  • Glen Gordon
    ... Old English as a Satem language. That s in no way tabloid-like... Mental note: Don t attend any courses at UPenn. - love gLeN
    Message 1 of 4 , May 5, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Steve:
      >You can see this tree at http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~histling/
      >
      >... along with other information including the following text:
      >"Ever wonder where Old English fell in the Indo-European tree? Our latest
      >results suggest that it falls somewhere within the Satem core! [...]"

      Old English as a Satem language. That's in no way tabloid-like...
      Mental note: Don't attend any courses at UPenn.


      - love gLeN


      _________________________________________________________________
      Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
      http://www.hotmail.com
    • Danny Wier
      From: Glen Gordon ... Actually that chart shows that the satem/centum split didn t split across groupings, since Greek is grouped
      Message 2 of 4 , May 5, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        From: "Glen Gordon" <glengordon01@...>

        > Steve:
        > >You can see this tree at http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~histling/

        > Old English as a Satem language. That's in no way tabloid-like...
        > Mental note: Don't attend any courses at UPenn.

        Actually that chart shows that the satem/centum split didn't split across
        groupings, since Greek is grouped with Armenian and Indo-Iranian, and
        Germanic is grouped with Balto-Slavic. Albanian, which is the only known IE
        language that preserves the five-way stop system and therefore is neither
        strictly satem nor centum, is not anywhere in the charts!

        I've seen a similar grouping drawn as an actual tree with branches curving
        every which way, with Armenian curiously at the center, as though it's
        closest to the "original" proto-language.

        ~Danny~
      • Piotr Gasiorowski
        Well, Albanian _is_ a Satem language, since the defining character of Satem is the fronting of the *k^ series, which was consistently carried out in
        Message 3 of 4 , May 6, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Well, Albanian _is_ a Satem language, since the defining character of Satem is the fronting of the *k^ series, which was consistently carried out in pre-Albanian. BTW, Albanian does _not_ preserve the three dorsal series; the labiovelars were delabialised in pre-Albanian just as they were in the rest of Satem. In most positions *k and *kW have the same Albanian reflex (<k>). It is _possible_ (though the evidence has been questioned) that only the *kW series (but not *k) was palatalised before front vowels, which would mean that the merger of *kW and *k happened rather late there, but there's no doubt that it did take place.

          Piotr


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Danny Wier" <dawier@...>
          To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 1:17 AM
          Subject: Re: [tied] D. Ringe's IE Tree (1998)


          > Albanian, which is the only known IE
          > language that preserves the five-way stop system and therefore is neither
          > strictly satem nor centum, is not anywhere in the charts!
        • Glen Gordon
          ... Five-way stop system? Sorry, maybe I lost count. How do we get five? - love gLeN _________________________________________________________________ Join the
          Message 4 of 4 , May 6, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            >Albanian, which is the only known IE language that preserves the five-way
            >stop system and therefore is neither strictly satem nor centum, is not
            >anywhere in the charts!

            Five-way stop system? Sorry, maybe I lost count. How do we get five?


            - love gLeN


            _________________________________________________________________
            Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
            http://www.hotmail.com
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.