[cybalist] Re: Afro-Asiatic
- Glen in relation to Alexander's post wrote
(or was it Alexander in relation to Glen's... My mailserver creates
endless confusion on such matters...)
> Ich antworte:proper
> Do you mean: What DIRECT LINGUISTIC evidences do we have to prefer
> Anatolian or proper Zagros cultures as a candidat for Nostratic one?I think
> none (and hardly will ever have, I'm afraid).to
> However recognition any of them as Nostratic (in the framework of the
> conception I presented) have very far going CONSEQUENCES. It is easy
> retrace the connections of the Zagros (+Natufian) cultures withAnatolia
> "Subneolithic" and Neolithic cultures of the Middle East (but not
> except the easternmost part), India, North China (but not the Huangheother hand > the cultures of the Anatolian type spread in North
> valley!), the Urals, the Pontic steppes, North-East Africa. On the
Mesopotamia and South and
> Central Europe, partly in the Caucasus region.Point taken, both of them were probably Nostratic to begin with. In
> Which of these 2 areas looks "more Nostratic" for you?
fact you cannot connect Natufian with Zagros in any way either. It is
as destinct as Anatolian. In fact Natufian had contact with Anatolian
cultures but not Zagros ones (they used the same source of Obsidian!).
The result of the matter is Natufian culture developed by easy stages
out of the pre-existing Kebaran culture. Presumably the Kebaran were
Nostratic too! Equally Zagros sub-neolithic at Jarmo developed by easy
stages out of the pre-existing Zarzian culture too. Thus the Zarzians
were probaly Nostratic too. These cultures extend back to late Ice
Age. They were microlithic in tradition at a time when their
neighbours to the North and East were still post Aurignacian big game
And where are the first microliths found? No.... you don't mean 15,000
years ago with the North East African Helwan of Fayyum? Surely not...
could that have been the oriigins of Nostratic? Perhaps....
But as you say so rightly, you cannot equate culture with language.
Except... the Na Dene peoples probably got into North America at the
time of the melting of the Laurentide Ice Sheet. To have a Nostratic
in Kamchatka so early means that Nostratic must have begun its
expansion considerably before Natufian and the Zagros cultures, and
that means before sub-Neolithic.
- In reply to my point
> JohnGlen wrote
> >Yup, this second wave (unlike the first) definitely took off via the
> >Palestine-Egyptian bridge. Aurignacian cultures spread rapidly north
> >and west, through Anatolia, and the Balkans onto the Eurasian steppe.
> >They were in Siberia north of Mongolia at Malaya Cave near Baikal by
> >about 35,000 BCE.
> Wait, I thought you said that the Aurignacian culture spread fromFrance
> west across the more widespread steppes existant then. ?? So to beclear,
> this Second Wave (DeneCaucasian) came out of Egypt into Anatolia?This is
> what I was claiming all along, the S-Group (NigerK, Nostratic,BuruYen,
> SinoDene) moves along the south eastward and up to the easternsteppes and
> the T-Group going north and west (Basque, NEC, Hattic, HurroU).Please
Aurignacian culture, derived from the Upper Paleolithic cultures of
northeastern Africa, took off through Palestine, Anatolia, the Balkans
40,000 BCE, and then split west (going to Spain and France, and east,
arriving at lake Baikal at Malaya by 36,000 years BCE. This was the
second wave out of Africa. (S Group Dene Caucasian, your Niger
Kordofanian, Sino-Tibetan et al)
The group that took off west developed Gravetian and Solutrean cultures
that by 25,000 BCE had spread eastwards from a centre possibly in
France, as far as the Urals. By 15,000 years BCE elements of this
culture had spread as far east as Afonsova Gora at Krasnoyask in
Siberia. This would have been T group Dene Caucasian.
Hope this helps