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71278Re: [tied] What is a "regular (endocentric) thematicization"?

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  • Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
    Aug 21, 2013
      Semitic languages, especially Arabic, are even much more complex (Just
      think in PIE there were five ablaut grades vs. a theoretic maximum
      of... 81 in Semitic words!)

      2013/8/21, r_brunner <rbrunner@...>:
      > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
      > <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...> wrote:
      >> 2013/8/18, r_brunner <rbrunner@...>:
      >> > The Wiktionary entry at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/war#Tocharian_B
      >> > for
      >> > the Tocharian B word for "water" gives a PIE form *udrom as the
      >> > probable
      >> > origin for this and states that *udrom is a "regular (endocentric)
      >> > thematicization".
      >> >
      >> > I could not find out what this means. Does this say that already in PIE
      >> > there might have been a special form *udrom of the "water" word and say
      >> > something how that form might have developed?
      >> 'Thematicization' means that a thematic vowel *-o- is added to a
      >> consonantal stem, in this case *udr-. 'Endocentric' has two meanings:
      >> 1) in derivational morphology, it's a derivation without suffixes and,
      >> precisely, based on the weak stem (= stem of the Genitive case) of the
      >> basic word, in this case *udr- (Nominative *wed-Å r, Genitive *ud-r-os,
      >> stem *ud-r- + ending *-os);
      >> 2) in thematicizations and compositional morphology, an endocentric
      >> derivation keeps the same referent of the basic word, while an
      >> exocentric one gets possessive meaning (e.g. *'udro-, with root
      >> accent, should mean 'water', while *udr-'o-, with suffixal accent,
      >> should mean 'having water').
      >> In this case both meanings of 'endocentric' seem to have been
      >> conflated together, since *udr-o- is both base on weak stem *ud-r- and
      >> provided with the same referent 'water'
      >> >
      >> > I traced the info back to the entry for "war" in "A Dictionary of
      >> > Tocharian
      >> > B" by Douglas Q. Adams, so it's probably reasonably up-to-date, but
      >> > that
      >> > entry does not include more explanation concerning this.
      >> >
      >> > And what is *udrom in the root-suffix-ending scheme? *ud-r-om? With
      >> > what
      >> > roles for suffix "r" and ending "om"?
      >> >
      >> zero grade for both root (*ud-) and suffix (*-r-) implies a basic
      >> word with a hysterokinetic or amphikinetic paradigm (hysterokinetic =
      >> strong stems with zero-grade root, accented full or lengthened suffix
      >> and zero ending, weak stems with zero grado root and suffix and
      >> accented full-grade endings; amphikinetic = strong stems with
      >> full-grade accented root, zero-grade suffix, and lengthened ending,
      >> weak stems with zero grado root and suffix and accented full-grade
      >> endings, although in strong stems the lengthened grade can affect the
      >> suffix instead of the ending);
      >> the ending *-o-m exhibits thematic vowel, in the thought of our
      >> most regretted Jens a sort of postponed article, with the marker of
      >> non-animate gender in direct cases
      > Thanks for this extensive information!
      > The more I learn about PIE the more I am amazed about the PIE
      > root-suffix-ending word formation scheme. I have some difficulty to really
      > grasp that a language could form words in such a highly systematic way.
      > Were linguists surprised when they had finally puzzled this together, or are
      > there precedents? Are there other - current, living - languages that have a
      > similar system of word formation?
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