70990Re: [tied] Greek hippos < ek^wos... or not?
- Feb 25, 2013--- In email@example.com, "Tavi" <oalexandre@...> wrote:
>Very likely this is no coincidence and some dialects of prehistoric Greek did maintain the expected *epos.
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@> wrote:
> > Is it sure to consider Greek hippos < *ek^wos, despite its clear irregular
> > shift? Would we expect *epos, instead of hippos? Does hippos come from
> > another IE language, or has it no relation to PIE root. Coincidence or not,
> > the builder of Trojan Horse was called Epeios, is it a clue for an obsolete
> > *epos in older Greek?
> > > You seemingly don't mention a third possibility: that hippos comesOur friend Bhr. is hardly an exponent of "orthodox PIE"; his extreme immobilist model, which precludes borrowing in pre-Roman times, demands the robotic reconstruction of PIE roots for individual words. This is nothing new; John Rhys mechanically postulated a root in *kW- to explain anything beginning with p- as P-Celtic.
> > > from another PIE root
> That is, in the ortodox PIE model any item which doesn't fit into regular sound correspondences is put under a different "root". In my view, the ortodox model is inconsistent and divergent sound correspondences like in this case mean divergent word paths.
> > You're right, I forgot to mention it: hippos < *sikWkWo-? *yikWkWo- ? The cluster -pp- is very uncommon in Greek. As a variant of -kk-, we can compare it to lakkos < *lak-wo-s.In my opinion, the Macedonian royal name Bilippos (Hellenized as Phil-) points to Mac. as the source of _hippos_, the internal consonantism being PIE *-k^w- > centumized *-kW- > Ill.-Lus. *-kkW- > P-Ill. *-kp- > Mac. *-pp- (with the -kp-stage actually attested in Lukpeio on Paeonian coins, as mentioned earlier).
> Actually, Gamkrelidze-Ivanov mentioned a possible protoform *s´ik´wo-, where *s´ is their own "compact sibilant" (a rough counterpart of my own sound law regarding post-velar fricatives), giving *s- > h- in Greek and zero elsewhere, but I find little support for it.
> In my opinion, Greek -pp- doesn't come from *-kWkW- (which I find rather absurd) but from *-kWw- resulting from regressive assimilation of *-k´w-. Hence *-kWw- > *-pw- > -pp- by reduction and progressive assimilation (possibly these two changes were synchronic) as in *-k´w- > -kk-.
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