15907[tied] Re: Pliny's "Guthalvs"
- Oct 3, 2002As far as I can see, the identification of the Massagetae and
the Getae results from a misunderstanding. The suffix -ta (< *ta:) in
a group of
northern Iranian languages (including Sogdian and modern Ossetic and
Yaghnobi) forms plural (historically collective) nouns, hence its
occurrence in tribal names (cf. Paralatae, Sarmatae). The common part
two names above is not -getae but rather -sage-tae (*-sagI-ta) = the
*sagI < *sakah 'Saka'. The names are explained as "Great Sakas"
Sakas", respectively, in Iranian terms.
On Masagagetae and Getae.
Would you read Getae, as Ge tae or Get ae ?.
The Ta Yueh Chi (Chinese source) or Siao- Yueh chi, and I see
are also known as the Greater Yueh chi and Little Yueh chi. The
taken to a part of the Yueh Chi. (Kushan is not a tribe but Jat clan
evolve their empire across north and central India)
A reference to Degroot in WW Tarns's " the Greeks in India and
Bactria, pp 296,
give De Groot's reading of Yueh chi as " Goat Si."
Another reading I came across is ngwattia. Pronounced - Gutia,
Karl Gren (reference in Dr H.S Pauria's book Jats- origins,
The jats were known to Timur as Jateh in central Asia, and he had a
with them, until his prayers were answered and their horses were
disease. ( In his memoirs, to his chagrin he met up with them in
India too and
our version of his travels in India are a little different from his,
but that is another
What this seems to imply is that today's Jats, knew themselves as
Jit, Jet, Get,
Jateh, Git, Gitta, Jitta, Jut, Djat, and so on, and different people,
they ran into
would have known them and describes addressed them differently.
The name of the Jats (Hindi ja:t.) is usually etymologised as Middle
*jat.t.a- < Old Indo-Aryan *jarta- (cf. Skt. jartika-, a tribal name)
Ravi> as a trivia, Jartika is confused as a tribal name, but is not
thought to be so
by the Jat historians. It only occurs once in the Mahabharata and not
else and that too only in later recessions
Jarta is attested inscriptional 6th century ad by the grammarian
who says Ajay jarto Hunan- The Jats defeated the Huns.
And Panini attests Jat.( 5century BC?)
Also in this period Gut or Gut-ia, Gut- asya, also show up, and the
early seals of
the 2nd Guptas (3rd to 6th century AD) show them as calling
themselves Gut or
Gutasya. Their clan name is Dharan, which is a Jat clan name. ####
s all that I can tell you about its supposed origin at the moment.
(pronounced [O:], of course) for Hindi <a:> was a common substitution
times, as in "juggernaut" for <jaganna:tH>. The OED gives the
spellings Jett, Jutt (17th c.) and Jaut (18th c.), but I've never
variants with initial <g->. What's your source for them?
Ravi >On the British rendering of 'Gaut,' for Jat I got this from a
Hindi book, from
a person who had served in the British Indian Army, and was a jat
This is just input, and your linguistic views would be most welcome !
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