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Re: [cw_bugs] Re: VIBROPLEX Original Deluxe

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  • hermit
    Mike - My XYL got me the Anniversary bug for Christmas 07 and I am unable to find any blemishes at all. I think you will be well pleased. It s gorgeous. 73
    Message 1 of 20 , May 2, 2008
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      Mike -

      My XYL got me the Anniversary bug for Christmas '07 and I am unable to
      find any blemishes at all. I think you will be well pleased. It's
      gorgeous.

      73

      Dick KB3OMJ

      >
      >
      >Mike:
      >
      >Let us know what you think of your new 100th Anniversary Original
      >after it arrives.
      >
      >Jack - N0NV
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >--- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, Mike Markowski <mm@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Marcelo, George, & all,
      >>
      >> Enjoy the new bug, Marcelo! I hope you'll have time to post a review.
      >> It's always helpful for new bug users like me to hear other new buyers'
      >> impressions.
      >>
      >> I'm awaiting my 100th Anniv Orig bug here. There's a backlog of
      >about 3
      >> to 4 weeks. Vibroplex web page says the 100th Anniv bug is sold at 25%
      >> off because they can't guarantee the quality of the base. So I called
      >> and asked what kind of blemishes I might expect. Betsy at Vibroplex
      >> says that the maker of the bases has worked out the problems (I almost
      >> said 'bugs') and that now the bases are fine. In her words, "But the
      >> boss says to keep selling at the sale price and word has gotten round."
      >> So $157 might just be a steal. I haven't received mine to verify
      >this
      >> but will be happy to post a follow up after the bug arrives if
      >anyone is
      >> interested.
      >>
      >> Also, Marcelo, you might not even need to slow it down. I think with
      >> the standard weight you can go down to about 20 or so wpm. At least
      >> with my old Lionel J-36 with the weight out to the end, it goes pretty
      >> slow. But the ca. WW-II bearings might also be worn! :-)
      >>
      >> 73,
      >> Mike ab3ap
      >>
      >> George Osier wrote:
      >> > FB Marcelo !!! I have the Vari-Speed and have used it quite a bit
      >but my
      >> > favorite still is the Extendadot !! If you have never used paddles it
      >> > shouldnt take long to get the knack of the bug !!
      >> >
      >> > Good luck and have fun !!!!
      >> >
      >> > George , N2JNZ
      >> > SKCC 2836T
      >> > Vibroplex 100th Anniversary Original here
      >> > ----- Original Message -----
      >> > From: "n2yhq" <n2yhq@...>
      >> >> Just ordered a new original deluxe bug with the vari speed to slow it
      >> >> down HIHI. Can't wait to get it.
      >> >>
      >> >> 73
      >> >> Marcelo
      >>
      >
    • k4oso
      Dick, That 100th Anniversary is real eye candy , eh? I acquired a very lightly used one a short time ago. Mine has the jewelled mainframe and red
      Message 2 of 20 , May 2, 2008
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        Dick,
        That 100th Anniversary is real "eye candy", eh? I "acquired" a very
        lightly used one a short time ago. Mine has the jewelled mainframe
        and red fingerpieces. Really adds sparkle to the operating desk.
        73, Milt
        k4oso

        --- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, hermit <hermit@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Mike -
        >
        > My XYL got me the Anniversary bug for Christmas '07 and I am unable
        to
        > find any blemishes at all. I think you will be well pleased. It's
        > gorgeous.
        >
        > 73
        >
        > Dick KB3OMJ
        >
        > >
        > >
        > >Mike:
        > >
        > >Let us know what you think of your new 100th Anniversary Original
        > >after it arrives.
        > >
        > >Jack - N0NV
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >--- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, Mike Markowski <mm@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Marcelo, George, & all,
        > >>
        > >> Enjoy the new bug, Marcelo! I hope you'll have time to post a
        review.
        > >> It's always helpful for new bug users like me to hear other new
        buyers'
        > >> impressions.
        > >>
        > >> I'm awaiting my 100th Anniv Orig bug here. There's a backlog of
        > >about 3
        > >> to 4 weeks. Vibroplex web page says the 100th Anniv bug is sold
        at 25%
        > >> off because they can't guarantee the quality of the base. So I
        called
        > >> and asked what kind of blemishes I might expect. Betsy at
        Vibroplex
        > >> says that the maker of the bases has worked out the problems (I
        almost
        > >> said 'bugs') and that now the bases are fine. In her
        words, "But the
        > >> boss says to keep selling at the sale price and word has gotten
        round."
        > >> So $157 might just be a steal. I haven't received mine to
        verify
        > >this
        > >> but will be happy to post a follow up after the bug arrives if
        > >anyone is
        > >> interested.
        > >>
        > >> Also, Marcelo, you might not even need to slow it down. I think
        with
        > >> the standard weight you can go down to about 20 or so wpm. At
        least
        > >> with my old Lionel J-36 with the weight out to the end, it goes
        pretty
        > >> slow. But the ca. WW-II bearings might also be worn! :-)
        > >>
        > >> 73,
        > >> Mike ab3ap
        > >>
        > >> George Osier wrote:
        > >> > FB Marcelo !!! I have the Vari-Speed and have used it quite a
        bit
        > >but my
        > >> > favorite still is the Extendadot !! If you have never used
        paddles it
        > >> > shouldnt take long to get the knack of the bug !!
        > >> >
        > >> > Good luck and have fun !!!!
        > >> >
        > >> > George , N2JNZ
        > >> > SKCC 2836T
        > >> > Vibroplex 100th Anniversary Original here
        > >> > ----- Original Message -----
        > >> > From: "n2yhq" <n2yhq@>
        > >> >> Just ordered a new original deluxe bug with the vari speed to
        slow it
        > >> >> down HIHI. Can't wait to get it.
        > >> >>
        > >> >> 73
        > >> >> Marcelo
        > >>
        > >
        >
      • Mike Markowski
        I ll definitely do that, Jack. Since it s been 4+ weeks now, I couldn t resist asking Vibroplex about it yesterday. The new estimate for shipping is Friday,
        Message 3 of 20 , May 2, 2008
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          I'll definitely do that, Jack. Since it's been 4+ weeks now, I couldn't resist
          asking Vibroplex about it yesterday. The new estimate for shipping is Friday,
          May 9, a week from today. Hopefully you'll see a note from me in the days
          shortly following. Remember ordering things off a cereal box as a kid and
          running to the mail box every day? I'm reliving that! From experiences of Dick
          KB3OMJ and Milt K4OSO, I expect I'll be saying good things about the bug.

          73,
          Mike ab3ap

          nzeronv wrote:
          >
          > Mike:
          >
          > Let us know what you think of your new 100th Anniversary Original
          > after it arrives.
          >
          > Jack - N0NV
        • hermit
          Hi Milt - Mine is the jeweled version as well. I opted for the black finger pieces. I have been looking hard at the VizKey for quite awhile now. Think maybe
          Message 4 of 20 , May 2, 2008
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            Hi Milt -

            Mine is the jeweled version as well. I opted for the black finger
            pieces.

            I have been looking hard at the VizKey for quite awhile now. Think
            maybe I'm gonna have me one of those soon. Hi.

            73

            >Dick,
            >That 100th Anniversary is real "eye candy", eh? I "acquired" a very
            >lightly used one a short time ago. Mine has the jewelled mainframe
            >and red fingerpieces. Really adds sparkle to the operating desk.
            >73, Milt
            >k4oso
            >
            >--- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, hermit <hermit@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >> Mike -
            >>
            >> My XYL got me the Anniversary bug for Christmas '07 and I am unable
            >to
            >> find any blemishes at all. I think you will be well pleased. It's
            >> gorgeous.
            >>
            >> 73
            >>
            >> Dick KB3OMJ
            >>
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >Mike:
            >> >
            >> >Let us know what you think of your new 100th Anniversary Original
            >> >after it arrives.
            >> >
            >> >Jack - N0NV
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >--- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, Mike Markowski <mm@> wrote:
            >> >>
            >> >> Marcelo, George, & all,
            >> >>
            >> >> Enjoy the new bug, Marcelo! I hope you'll have time to post a
            >review.
            >> >> It's always helpful for new bug users like me to hear other new
            >buyers'
            >> >> impressions.
            >> >>
            >> >> I'm awaiting my 100th Anniv Orig bug here. There's a backlog of
            >> >about 3
            >> >> to 4 weeks. Vibroplex web page says the 100th Anniv bug is sold
            >at 25%
            >> >> off because they can't guarantee the quality of the base. So I
            >called
            >> >> and asked what kind of blemishes I might expect. Betsy at
            >Vibroplex
            >> >> says that the maker of the bases has worked out the problems (I
            >almost
            >> >> said 'bugs') and that now the bases are fine. In her
            >words, "But the
            >> >> boss says to keep selling at the sale price and word has gotten
            >round."
            >> >> So $157 might just be a steal. I haven't received mine to
            >verify
            >> >this
            >> >> but will be happy to post a follow up after the bug arrives if
            >> >anyone is
            >> >> interested.
            >> >>
            >> >> Also, Marcelo, you might not even need to slow it down. I think
            >with
            >> >> the standard weight you can go down to about 20 or so wpm. At
            >least
            >> >> with my old Lionel J-36 with the weight out to the end, it goes
            >pretty
            >> >> slow. But the ca. WW-II bearings might also be worn! :-)
            >> >>
            >> >> 73,
            >> >> Mike ab3ap
            >> >>
            >> >> George Osier wrote:
            >> >> > FB Marcelo !!! I have the Vari-Speed and have used it quite a
            >bit
            >> >but my
            >> >> > favorite still is the Extendadot !! If you have never used
            >paddles it
            >> >> > shouldnt take long to get the knack of the bug !!
            >> >> >
            >> >> > Good luck and have fun !!!!
            >> >> >
            >> >> > George , N2JNZ
            >> >> > SKCC 2836T
            >> >> > Vibroplex 100th Anniversary Original here
            >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
            >> >> > From: "n2yhq" <n2yhq@>
            >> >> >> Just ordered a new original deluxe bug with the vari speed to
            >slow it
            >> >> >> down HIHI. Can't wait to get it.
            >> >> >>
            >> >> >> 73
            >> >> >> Marcelo
            >> >>
            >> >
            >>
            >
          • David Ring
            The Standard version of the Anniversary Original Semi-automatic Vibroplex as well as the Millenium 2000 Blue Racer are both Deluxe (jeweled movement) bugs
            Message 5 of 20 , May 2, 2008
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              The "Standard" version of the Anniversary Original Semi-automatic
              Vibroplex as well as the Millenium 2000 Blue Racer are both Deluxe
              (jeweled movement) bugs dressed in plain clothes.

              All other "Standard" versions of Vibroplex have the standard,
              non-jeweled movement with the narrowed tapered pointed end of the top
              and bottom spindle of the lever sitting in empty cups at the end of
              the trunion (top and bottom) screws. The jeweled movement has the
              rounded end (instead of a point these look like an elbow) of the
              spindle fitting in the top and bottom jeweled cups,

              The 100th Anniversary Original was supplied with Black finger pieces -
              which was what was used 100 years ago! It is the ONLY deluxe bug ever
              made with black finger pieces and a painted base. While the Millenium
              2000 Blue Racer had red finger pieces, but it had a blue epoxy painted
              base - making it the first deluxe Vibroplex to have a painted base
              since the World War II bugs produced 1942-45 during the chrome
              rationing. The Millenium 2000 Blue Racer is really a new model of the
              Original bug - just put on a narrow base. The miniature hardware
              (yoke, vibrator, etc.) of the Blue Racer are NOT used, but modern
              Original parts are. So it is a Original on a narrow base, with
              jeweled movement and a blue painted base. The "Deluxe" version of
              this key only adds a chrome base as the key already has jeweled
              movement.

              73

              David N1EA
              =30=
              On 5/2/08, k4oso <k4oso@...> wrote:
              > Dick,
              > That 100th Anniversary is real "eye candy", eh? I "acquired" a very
              > lightly used one a short time ago. Mine has the jewelled mainframe
              > and red fingerpieces. Really adds sparkle to the operating desk.
              > 73, Milt
              >
              > k4oso
              >
              >
              > --- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, hermit <hermit@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Mike -
              > >
              > > My XYL got me the Anniversary bug for Christmas '07 and I am unable
              > to
              > > find any blemishes at all. I think you will be well pleased. It's
              > > gorgeous.
              > >
              > > 73
              > >
              > > Dick KB3OMJ
              > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >Mike:
              > > >
              > > >Let us know what you think of your new 100th Anniversary Original
              > > >after it arrives.
              > > >
              > > >Jack - N0NV
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >--- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, Mike Markowski <mm@> wrote:
              > > >>
              > > >> Marcelo, George, & all,
              > > >>
              > > >> Enjoy the new bug, Marcelo! I hope you'll have time to post a
              > review.
              > > >> It's always helpful for new bug users like me to hear other new
              > buyers'
              > > >> impressions.
              > > >>
              > > >> I'm awaiting my 100th Anniv Orig bug here. There's a backlog of
              > > >about 3
              > > >> to 4 weeks. Vibroplex web page says the 100th Anniv bug is sold
              > at 25%
              > > >> off because they can't guarantee the quality of the base. So I
              > called
              > > >> and asked what kind of blemishes I might expect. Betsy at
              > Vibroplex
              > > >> says that the maker of the bases has worked out the problems (I
              > almost
              > > >> said 'bugs') and that now the bases are fine. In her
              > words, "But the
              > > >> boss says to keep selling at the sale price and word has gotten
              > round."
              > > >> So $157 might just be a steal. I haven't received mine to
              > verify
              > > >this
              > > >> but will be happy to post a follow up after the bug arrives if
              > > >anyone is
              > > >> interested.
              > > >>
              > > >> Also, Marcelo, you might not even need to slow it down. I think
              > with
              > > >> the standard weight you can go down to about 20 or so wpm. At
              > least
              > > >> with my old Lionel J-36 with the weight out to the end, it goes
              > pretty
              > > >> slow. But the ca. WW-II bearings might also be worn! :-)
              > > >>
              > > >> 73,
              > > >> Mike ab3ap
              > > >>
              > > >> George Osier wrote:
              > > >> > FB Marcelo !!! I have the Vari-Speed and have used it quite a
              > bit
              > > >but my
              > > >> > favorite still is the Extendadot !! If you have never used
              > paddles it
              > > >> > shouldnt take long to get the knack of the bug !!
              > > >> >
              > > >> > Good luck and have fun !!!!
              > > >> >
              > > >> > George , N2JNZ
              > > >> > SKCC 2836T
              > > >> > Vibroplex 100th Anniversary Original here
              > > >> > ----- Original Message -----
              > > >> > From: "n2yhq" <n2yhq@>
              > > >> >> Just ordered a new original deluxe bug with the vari speed to
              > slow it
              > > >> >> down HIHI. Can't wait to get it.
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> 73
              > > >> >> Marcelo
              > > >>
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • k4oso
              David, I ve got to differ with you on this. The Blue Racer 2000 does indeed have the jewelled movement......and it says so in the ad. It also shows the
              Message 6 of 20 , May 2, 2008
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                David,
                I've got to differ with you on this. The Blue Racer 2000 does indeed
                have the jewelled movement......and it says so in the ad. It also
                shows the regular jewelled movement with the red decorative jewel on
                top. The 100th, on the other hand, is the standard mainframe, with
                NO mention of jewelled movement. I traded with a buddy for an 100th
                Anniversary model. He bought it and added the jewelled mainframe,
                and paid extra for it. I've got the key, the box and the invoice,
                all of which corroborate this.
                Now.......I'm not saying the standard "look" could not be hiding an
                underlying jewelled movement, but I'm from Missouri on this one.
                73,
                Milt k4oso
                --- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, "David Ring" <n1ea@...> wrote:
                >
                > The "Standard" version of the Anniversary Original Semi-automatic
                > Vibroplex as well as the Millenium 2000 Blue Racer are both Deluxe
                > (jeweled movement) bugs dressed in plain clothes.
                >> >
                >
              • Bill
                ... You won t regret geting a VizBug. I have one and it is the only bug that I have ever been friendly with. Quiet and light - just a pleasure to use. Bill
                Message 7 of 20 , May 2, 2008
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                  --- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, hermit <hermit@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Milt -
                  >
                  > Mine is the jeweled version as well. I opted for the black finger
                  > pieces.
                  >
                  > I have been looking hard at the VizKey for quite awhile now. Think
                  > maybe I'm gonna have me one of those soon. Hi.
                  >
                  > 73
                  >
                  > >Dick,


                  You won't regret geting a VizBug. I have one and it is the only bug
                  that I have ever been friendly with. Quiet and light - just a
                  pleasure to use.

                  Bill W2BLC
                • David Ring
                  I am half wrong Milt. The Blue Racer 2000 is a deluxe key dressed up in plain clothes. The ONLY difference between the Blue Racer 2000 Standard and the
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 2, 2008
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                    I am half wrong Milt. The Blue Racer 2000 is a deluxe key dressed up
                    in plain clothes. The ONLY difference between the Blue Racer 2000
                    "Standard" and the Blue Racer 2000 "Deluxe" is the chrome base rather
                    than the blue epoxy painted base. Which is what I said.

                    However, you're right on the 100th Anniversary Original - it is indeed
                    a standard movement as it has a screw at the top. The WW2 Deluxe keys
                    had a screw on the top and also a jeweled movement.

                    Before we put this to bed, can someone loosen the screw at the top and
                    look at the top of the spindle? Is it rounded (jeweled movement) or
                    sharpened to a rounded small point (standard).

                    I no longer have a 100th Anniversary Bug here, but I have the Blue
                    Racer 2000 - but we both agree on that.

                    73

                    David N1EA
                    =30=



                    On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 3:46 AM, k4oso <k4oso@...> wrote:
                    > David,
                    > I've got to differ with you on this. The Blue Racer 2000 does indeed
                    > have the jewelled movement......and it says so in the ad. It also
                    > shows the regular jewelled movement with the red decorative jewel on
                    > top. The 100th, on the other hand, is the standard mainframe, with
                    > NO mention of jewelled movement. I traded with a buddy for an 100th
                    > Anniversary model. He bought it and added the jewelled mainframe,
                    > and paid extra for it. I've got the key, the box and the invoice,
                    > all of which corroborate this.
                    > Now.......I'm not saying the standard "look" could not be hiding an
                    > underlying jewelled movement, but I'm from Missouri on this one.
                    > 73,
                    > Milt k4oso
                    >
                    > --- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, "David Ring" <n1ea@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > The "Standard" version of the Anniversary Original Semi-automatic
                    > > Vibroplex as well as the Millenium 2000 Blue Racer are both Deluxe
                    > > (jeweled movement) bugs dressed in plain clothes.
                    > >> >
                    > >
                  • n2yhq
                    ... it ... Update 05/06/08 Yesterday I received the bug and spent a significant amount of time just looking at it!. Seriously, this device is a true
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 6, 2008
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                      --- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, "n2yhq" <n2yhq@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Gang:
                      > Just ordered a new original deluxe bug with the vari speed to slow
                      it
                      > down HIHI. Can't wait to get it.
                      >
                      > 73
                      > Marcelo
                      >
                      Update 05/06/08

                      Yesterday I received the bug and spent a significant amount of time
                      just looking at it!. Seriously, this device is a true engineering
                      masterpiece. How did I spent 47 yrs of my life without having one?. I
                      uploaded its picture under "n2yhq". Now I will have to practice,
                      practice and practice.

                      73 Marcelo
                    • David Ring
                      Hello Marcelo, I agree with you - the Vari-Speed was a brilliant invention. It was the idea of the same fellow who invented the FYO paddles which were the
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 6, 2008
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                        Hello Marcelo,


                        I agree with you - the Vari-Speed was a brilliant invention. It was
                        the idea of the same fellow who invented the FYO paddles which were
                        the predessesor of the Bencher paddles. The invention was Joseph A.
                        Hills, W8FYO. The Vari-speed came out in 1954, and the FYO paddles
                        came out in 1962, just a few years after Vibroplex launched its
                        paddles, the Vibrokeyer.

                        Both were brilliant designs. But W8FYO only patented the key design.

                        FYO paddle http://www.google.com/patents?id=4BtpAAAAEBAJ&dq=hills+telegraph

                        73

                        David N1EA





                        On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 2:20 AM, n2yhq <n2yhq@...> wrote:
                        > --- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, "n2yhq" <n2yhq@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Gang:
                        > > Just ordered a new original deluxe bug with the vari speed to slow
                        > it
                        > > down HIHI. Can't wait to get it.
                        > >
                        > > 73
                        > > Marcelo
                        > >
                        > Update 05/06/08
                        >
                        > Yesterday I received the bug and spent a significant amount of time
                        > just looking at it!. Seriously, this device is a true engineering
                        > masterpiece. How did I spent 47 yrs of my life without having one?. I
                        > uploaded its picture under "n2yhq". Now I will have to practice,
                        > practice and practice.
                        >
                        > 73 Marcelo
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                      • Mike Markowski
                        Jack and everyone, ... It arrived at long last! Ordered April 3rd and showed up by the door just a few minutes ago - about 9 weeks later. Vibroplex had a
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 6, 2008
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                          Jack and everyone,

                          nzeronv wrote:
                          > Mike:
                          >
                          > Let us know what you think of your new 100th Anniversary Original
                          > after it arrives.
                          >
                          > Jack - N0NV

                          It arrived at long last! Ordered April 3rd and showed up by the door
                          just a few minutes ago - about 9 weeks later. Vibroplex had a back
                          order on 100th Anniv bases and then had to wait on an order of parts for
                          the lever apparently. But it made.

                          By the way, I can safely say that though the 100th Anniv Original is
                          advertised as "seconds only" with warnings that quality might not be
                          100%, I see absolutely no sign of problems. Others have said the same,
                          so if you have $160 to spare it's really a very good deal.

                          The bug has much snappier action than my Lionel J-36 and is also a
                          little noisier. But I can make much more crisp characters than with the
                          J-36. Dinner soon and then I'll have to make my 1st qso on the new bug!

                          73,
                          Mike ab3ap
                        • nzeronv
                          FB Mike: That s a major case of delayed gratification. But like you, I saw no problems with the quality of the base. Have fun Mike, Jack - N0NV ... for ...
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 6, 2008
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                            FB Mike:

                            That's a major case of delayed gratification. But like you, I saw no
                            problems with the quality of the base.

                            Have fun Mike,

                            Jack - N0NV



                            --- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, Mike Markowski <mm@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Jack and everyone,
                            >
                            > nzeronv wrote:
                            > > Mike:
                            > >
                            > > Let us know what you think of your new 100th Anniversary Original
                            > > after it arrives.
                            > >
                            > > Jack - N0NV
                            >
                            > It arrived at long last! Ordered April 3rd and showed up by the door
                            > just a few minutes ago - about 9 weeks later. Vibroplex had a back
                            > order on 100th Anniv bases and then had to wait on an order of parts
                            for
                            > the lever apparently. But it made.
                            >
                            > By the way, I can safely say that though the 100th Anniv Original is
                            > advertised as "seconds only" with warnings that quality might not be
                            > 100%, I see absolutely no sign of problems. Others have said the same,
                            > so if you have $160 to spare it's really a very good deal.
                            >
                            > The bug has much snappier action than my Lionel J-36 and is also a
                            > little noisier. But I can make much more crisp characters than with
                            the
                            > J-36. Dinner soon and then I'll have to make my 1st qso on the new bug!
                            >
                            > 73,
                            > Mike ab3ap
                            >
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