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Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

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  • Joe V31JP
    Bill, If you are speaking of the screw just behind the arbour/pivot, it is to fix the pendulum height. Some were a press fit while others use the screw to fix
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
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      Bill,

      If you are speaking of the screw just behind the arbour/pivot, it is to fix the pendulum height.  Some were a press fit while others use the screw
      to fix the set height of the pendulum as in my Champion.  My #6 is in a container waiting for me to reassemble it after the base was re-nickel
      plated.  Darned if I could find a picture of a Frattini J-36 to look at it.

      On 6/13/2012 8:38 AM, William wrote:
       

      On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring. It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction. Does anyone know it's purpose?
      Bill/wv1n


      -- 
      161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
      P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
      (Hopkins Village) Belize
      011-501-503-7346 Belize
      011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
      or
      5204 Texas Highway 49 W
      Omaha, TX 75571-6474
      U.S.A.
      903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
      Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
      LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
      http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
      I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
    • D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
      Tell us where you can see this screw. I don t see it. http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm DR =30=
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
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        Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.

        http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm

        DR

        =30=



        On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
        On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
        Bill/wv1n



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      • Mort, G2JL
        http://www.i1qod.it/j36.htm Gets U a beautiful picture if U can QRX long enough. My Internet is slow ! QAC de Mort, SV5/G2JL
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
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          http://www.i1qod.it/j36.htm  Gets U a beautiful picture if U can QRX long enough.  My Internet is slow !
           
          QAC de Mort, SV5/G2JL
        • Joe V31JP
          Finally, I see the Frattini J36. I believe he is referring to the set screw on this one that locks the pendulum height. Old Vibroplex used a headed screw as
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
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            Finally, I see the Frattini J36.  I believe he is referring to the set screw on this one that locks the pendulum height.
            Old Vibroplex used a headed screw as in the case of my Champion, it is a oval Phillips head screw in a counter
            sunk hole to lock the height.

            On 6/13/2012 10:59 AM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:  
            Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.

            http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm

            DR

            =30=



            On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
            On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
            Bill/wv1n



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            -- 
            161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
            P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
            (Hopkins Village) Belize
            011-501-503-7346 Belize
            011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
            or
            5204 Texas Highway 49 W
            Omaha, TX 75571-6474
            U.S.A.
            903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
            Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
            LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
            http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
            I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
          • William Schmidt
            It s on the views marked partial view . On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I ve seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes. To:
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
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              It's on the views marked "partial view".  On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I've seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes.


              To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
              From: n1ea@...
              Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:59:10 -0400
              Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

               

              Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.
              http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm
              DR

              =30=



              On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
              On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
              Bill/wv1n



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            • Joe V31JP
              That is to hold/lock the pendulum height to the arbour/pivot rod. Some keys, the hole and pin are a pressed fit, but some use this screw to lock the height or
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
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                That is to hold/lock the pendulum height to the arbour/pivot rod.  Some keys, the hole and pin are a pressed fit, but some use this screw to lock the height or
                make it more easily adjustable.  I have an Original going to the bench shortly the the pendulum is too low and I have to raise it. It is a press fit.  A challenge here as
                my tools are at home in Belize.

                On 6/13/2012 12:37 PM, William Schmidt wrote:
                 

                It's on the views marked "partial view".  On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I've seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes.


                To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                From: n1ea@...
                Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:59:10 -0400
                Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

                 

                Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.
                http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm
                DR

                =30=



                On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
                On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
                Bill/wv1n



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                -- 
                161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                (Hopkins Village) Belize
                011-501-503-7346 Belize
                011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                or
                5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                U.S.A.
                903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
              • D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
                Joe is correct. It is a machine screw that presses against the arbour (pivot rod) to prevent it from moving - later Vibroplex s do not have this as they are
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
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                  Joe is correct.  It is a machine screw that presses against the arbour (pivot rod) to prevent it from moving - later Vibroplex's do not have this as they are press fit and basically not adjustable.

                  What I do if the height is off on pressure fit arbours is I take a 1 inch think pieces of soft wood that I can hold in my hands 2 by 3 by 1 is fine - I use three soft cloths and I use a bench vise.

                  I disassemble the key and remove the main lever from the trunnion assembly, Be sure to disconnect the grounding braid if the key is a "deluxe" version.

                  I open the vise and cover each side with cloth thick enough to cushion the blow you will be giving in a moment.  I wrap the arbour (pivot rod) with a thin cloth - just to prevent tool marks..

                  Lay the lever across the jaws of the padded vise and close the vise until you are about 1/16 inch from each side of the arbour.  Hold the lever in position and tighten vise until it allows movement of the arbour but doesn't allow it to fall over unless you force it to.  In other words "just holding".

                  Then take a piece of wood - cover the elbow end of the pin with the soft wood and give it a whack with a small hammer.  The pin will go down a bit.

                  You get the idea.

                  73

                  On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Joe V31JP <v31jp1957@...> wrote:


                  That is to hold/lock the pendulum height to the arbour/pivot rod.  Some keys, the hole and pin are a pressed fit, but some use this screw to lock the height or
                  make it more easily adjustable.  I have an Original going to the bench shortly the the pendulum is too low and I have to raise it. It is a press fit.  A challenge here as
                  my tools are at home in Belize.


                  On 6/13/2012 12:37 PM, William Schmidt wrote:
                   

                  It's on the views marked "partial view".  On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I've seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes.


                  To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                  From: n1ea@...
                  Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:59:10 -0400
                  Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

                   

                  Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.
                  http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm
                  DR

                  =30=



                  On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
                  On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
                  Bill/wv1n



                  ------------------------------------

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                  -- 
                  161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                  P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                  (Hopkins Village) Belize
                  011-501-503-7346 Belize
                  011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                  or
                  5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                  Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                  U.S.A.
                  903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                  Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                  LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                  http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                  I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.



                • Joe V31JP
                  Very correct, DR. If you have as I have and/or made, small pry bars, 2 identical, you can grip the arbour with a smooth jawed vise (covered pads) and I
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
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                    Very correct, DR.  If you have as I have and/or made, small pry bars, 2 identical, you can grip the arbour with a smooth jawed vise (covered pads) and I sometimes
                    use leather as an additional protection.  I then can apply pressure upwards on the main bar very close to both sides of the arbour to move it up from where it is gripped.
                    I cover the pry bars as well.  Occasionally, the arbour is not extended or long enough to grip it, then DR's method is used. I, occasionally, can use my staking tool as
                    well, but not a common tool in shops today.

                    On 6/13/2012 1:27 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:  

                    Joe is correct.  It is a machine screw that presses against the arbour (pivot rod) to prevent it from moving - later Vibroplex's do not have this as they are press fit and basically not adjustable.

                    What I do if the height is off on pressure fit arbours is I take a 1 inch think pieces of soft wood that I can hold in my hands 2 by 3 by 1 is fine - I use three soft cloths and I use a bench vise.

                    I disassemble the key and remove the main lever from the trunnion assembly, Be sure to disconnect the grounding braid if the key is a "deluxe" version.

                    I open the vise and cover each side with cloth thick enough to cushion the blow you will be giving in a moment.  I wrap the arbour (pivot rod) with a thin cloth - just to prevent tool marks..

                    Lay the lever across the jaws of the padded vise and close the vise until you are about 1/16 inch from each side of the arbour.  Hold the lever in position and tighten vise until it allows movement of the arbour but doesn't allow it to fall over unless you force it to.  In other words "just holding".

                    Then take a piece of wood - cover the elbow end of the pin with the soft wood and give it a whack with a small hammer.  The pin will go down a bit.

                    You get the idea.

                    73

                    On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Joe V31JP <v31jp1957@...> wrote:


                    That is to hold/lock the pendulum height to the arbour/pivot rod.  Some keys, the hole and pin are a pressed fit, but some use this screw to lock the height or
                    make it more easily adjustable.  I have an Original going to the bench shortly the the pendulum is too low and I have to raise it. It is a press fit.  A challenge here as
                    my tools are at home in Belize.


                    -- 
                    161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                    P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                    (Hopkins Village) Belize
                    011-501-503-7346 Belize
                    011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                    or
                    5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                    Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                    U.S.A.
                    903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                    Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                    LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                    http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                    I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
                  • Joe V31JP
                    Bill, I finally seen the screw you are talking about. On some speed keys, it was a way to fix the height of the pendulum. there are press fit arbours, there
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 16, 2012
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                      Bill,

                      I finally seen the screw you are talking about.  On some speed keys, it was a way to fix the height of the pendulum.  there are press fit arbours,
                      there are captured arbours (sandwiched between between two pieces) and some used such a screw, either directly into the arbour or set with
                      a grazing, but capturing position.  I cannot find my reference as to when Vibroplex used that method and discontinued using it.

                      Sorry if this was answered before. I am search for some e-mails and cleaning up/out others.

                      On 6/13/2012 12:37 PM, William Schmidt wrote:
                       

                      It's on the views marked "partial view".  On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I've seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes.


                      To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                      From: n1ea@...
                      Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:59:10 -0400
                      Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

                       

                      Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.
                      http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm
                      DR

                      =30=



                      On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
                      On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
                      Bill/wv1n



                      ------------------------------------

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                      -- 
                      161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                      P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                      (Hopkins Village) Belize
                      011-501-503-7346 Belize
                      011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                      or
                      5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                      Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                      U.S.A.
                      903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                      Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                      LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                      http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                      I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
                    • WILLIS COOKE
                      I have several Vibroplex keys.  The only one with this screw is the only one with jeweled bearings.  Perhaps there is a connection.   Willis Cookie Cooke
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 16, 2012
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                        I have several Vibroplex keys.  The only one with this screw is the only one with jeweled bearings.  Perhaps there is a connection.
                         
                        Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
                        K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart

                        From: Joe V31JP <v31jp1957@...>
                        To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:10 PM
                        Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

                         
                        Bill,

                        I finally seen the screw you are talking about.  On some speed keys, it was a way to fix the height of the pendulum.  there are press fit arbours,
                        there are captured arbours (sandwiched between between two pieces) and some used such a screw, either directly into the arbour or set with
                        a grazing, but capturing position.  I cannot find my reference as to when Vibroplex used that method and discontinued using it.

                        Sorry if this was answered before. I am search for some e-mails and cleaning up/out others.

                        On 6/13/2012 12:37 PM, William Schmidt wrote:
                         
                        It's on the views marked "partial view".  On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I've seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes.


                        To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                        From: n1ea@...
                        Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:59:10 -0400
                        Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

                         

                        Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.
                        http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm
                        DR

                        =30=



                        On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
                        On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
                        Bill/wv1n



                        ------------------------------------

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                        -- 
                        161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                        P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                        (Hopkins Village) Belize
                        011-501-503-7346 Belize
                        011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                        or
                        5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                        Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                        U.S.A.
                        903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                        Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                        LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                        http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                        I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.


                      • Joe V31JP
                        My Vibroplex Champion, 1952 has the capture screw for the arbour or trunion pin. It is an slotted oval head screw that is in the dot bar. All of my other keys
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 16, 2012
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                          My Vibroplex Champion, 1952 has the capture screw for the arbour or trunion pin.  It is an slotted oval head screw that is in the dot bar.
                          All of my other keys here are press fit, from the 1913, 1920, 1928, a friends 1945 to my 1991 original.

                          The Deluxe had a fillister head screw that captured a small ring lug on a ground wire.  That ground wire went down to a screw
                          on the bottom back side of the yoke.  Because the Deluxe had a jewelled bearing, the trunion could not supply ground to the
                          dot and dash bars, thus no ground to the dot or dash contacts when they were closed.

                          But the screw that Bill asked about, I saw it on the Italian bug and it is a hex set screw and some Vibroplex had the screw in nearly
                          the same spot for locking the dot bar's height.  I did not even realize my '52 Champion had it until I just looked at all my keys here
                          in Texas.

                          If you look at the parts list for an Original, Part# O-29  or 1005 is for a trunion lock screw, but you will not find it in the machine drawing.
                          Same with the Champion, except it part number C-26 or 1005.

                          On 9/16/2012 10:45 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
                          I have several Vibroplex keys.  The only one with this screw is the only one with jeweled bearings.  Perhaps there is a connection.
                           
                          Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
                          K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart

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                          I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
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