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Re: Lightning bug question

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  • k4oso
    Bill, I wonder if you re referring to the grounding screw which assures continuity between the lever and the base, usually on chrome Lightning Bugs. When
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
      Bill,
      I wonder if you're referring to the grounding screw which assures continuity between the lever and the base, usually on chrome Lightning Bugs. When intact, there is a copper braid attached to the screw.
      Milt k4oso

      --- In cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com, "William" <fretjock@...> wrote:
      >
      > On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring. It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction. Does anyone know it's purpose?
      > Bill/wv1n
      >
    • Mort, G2JL
      ...On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring. It s presence is not noted on the lightning machine
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012

        "...On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring. It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction. Does anyone know it's purpose?
        Bill/wv1n..."

        Perhaps it's to hold the pivot on to the lever;  it's what it's used for in mine.  Its manufacturing date is around 1962.  Its base,  which I was having re-plated,  was lost in the factory - they had a fire - just my sort of luck,  so I had a new one made.  The key is at home,  so I don't know its serial number. 
         
        I hope this helps  -  73 de Mort,  SV5/G2JL 
      • Joe V31JP
        Bill, If you are speaking of the screw just behind the arbour/pivot, it is to fix the pendulum height. Some were a press fit while others use the screw to fix
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
          Bill,

          If you are speaking of the screw just behind the arbour/pivot, it is to fix the pendulum height.  Some were a press fit while others use the screw
          to fix the set height of the pendulum as in my Champion.  My #6 is in a container waiting for me to reassemble it after the base was re-nickel
          plated.  Darned if I could find a picture of a Frattini J-36 to look at it.

          On 6/13/2012 8:38 AM, William wrote:
           

          On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring. It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction. Does anyone know it's purpose?
          Bill/wv1n


          -- 
          161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
          P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
          (Hopkins Village) Belize
          011-501-503-7346 Belize
          011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
          or
          5204 Texas Highway 49 W
          Omaha, TX 75571-6474
          U.S.A.
          903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
          Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
          LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
          http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
          I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
        • D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
          Tell us where you can see this screw. I don t see it. http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm DR =30=
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
            Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.

            http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm

            DR

            =30=



            On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
            On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
            Bill/wv1n



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          • Mort, G2JL
            http://www.i1qod.it/j36.htm Gets U a beautiful picture if U can QRX long enough. My Internet is slow ! QAC de Mort, SV5/G2JL
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
              http://www.i1qod.it/j36.htm  Gets U a beautiful picture if U can QRX long enough.  My Internet is slow !
               
              QAC de Mort, SV5/G2JL
            • Joe V31JP
              Finally, I see the Frattini J36. I believe he is referring to the set screw on this one that locks the pendulum height. Old Vibroplex used a headed screw as
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
                Finally, I see the Frattini J36.  I believe he is referring to the set screw on this one that locks the pendulum height.
                Old Vibroplex used a headed screw as in the case of my Champion, it is a oval Phillips head screw in a counter
                sunk hole to lock the height.

                On 6/13/2012 10:59 AM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:  
                Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.

                http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm

                DR

                =30=



                On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
                On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
                Bill/wv1n



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                -- 
                161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                (Hopkins Village) Belize
                011-501-503-7346 Belize
                011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                or
                5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                U.S.A.
                903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
              • William Schmidt
                It s on the views marked partial view . On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I ve seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes. To:
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
                  It's on the views marked "partial view".  On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I've seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes.


                  To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                  From: n1ea@...
                  Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:59:10 -0400
                  Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

                   

                  Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.
                  http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm
                  DR

                  =30=



                  On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
                  On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
                  Bill/wv1n



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                • Joe V31JP
                  That is to hold/lock the pendulum height to the arbour/pivot rod. Some keys, the hole and pin are a pressed fit, but some use this screw to lock the height or
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
                    That is to hold/lock the pendulum height to the arbour/pivot rod.  Some keys, the hole and pin are a pressed fit, but some use this screw to lock the height or
                    make it more easily adjustable.  I have an Original going to the bench shortly the the pendulum is too low and I have to raise it. It is a press fit.  A challenge here as
                    my tools are at home in Belize.

                    On 6/13/2012 12:37 PM, William Schmidt wrote:
                     

                    It's on the views marked "partial view".  On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I've seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes.


                    To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                    From: n1ea@...
                    Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:59:10 -0400
                    Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

                     

                    Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.
                    http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm
                    DR

                    =30=



                    On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
                    On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
                    Bill/wv1n



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                    -- 
                    161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                    P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                    (Hopkins Village) Belize
                    011-501-503-7346 Belize
                    011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                    or
                    5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                    Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                    U.S.A.
                    903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                    Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                    LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                    http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                    I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
                  • D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
                    Joe is correct. It is a machine screw that presses against the arbour (pivot rod) to prevent it from moving - later Vibroplex s do not have this as they are
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
                      Joe is correct.  It is a machine screw that presses against the arbour (pivot rod) to prevent it from moving - later Vibroplex's do not have this as they are press fit and basically not adjustable.

                      What I do if the height is off on pressure fit arbours is I take a 1 inch think pieces of soft wood that I can hold in my hands 2 by 3 by 1 is fine - I use three soft cloths and I use a bench vise.

                      I disassemble the key and remove the main lever from the trunnion assembly, Be sure to disconnect the grounding braid if the key is a "deluxe" version.

                      I open the vise and cover each side with cloth thick enough to cushion the blow you will be giving in a moment.  I wrap the arbour (pivot rod) with a thin cloth - just to prevent tool marks..

                      Lay the lever across the jaws of the padded vise and close the vise until you are about 1/16 inch from each side of the arbour.  Hold the lever in position and tighten vise until it allows movement of the arbour but doesn't allow it to fall over unless you force it to.  In other words "just holding".

                      Then take a piece of wood - cover the elbow end of the pin with the soft wood and give it a whack with a small hammer.  The pin will go down a bit.

                      You get the idea.

                      73

                      On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Joe V31JP <v31jp1957@...> wrote:


                      That is to hold/lock the pendulum height to the arbour/pivot rod.  Some keys, the hole and pin are a pressed fit, but some use this screw to lock the height or
                      make it more easily adjustable.  I have an Original going to the bench shortly the the pendulum is too low and I have to raise it. It is a press fit.  A challenge here as
                      my tools are at home in Belize.


                      On 6/13/2012 12:37 PM, William Schmidt wrote:
                       

                      It's on the views marked "partial view".  On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I've seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes.


                      To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                      From: n1ea@...
                      Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:59:10 -0400
                      Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

                       

                      Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.
                      http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm
                      DR

                      =30=



                      On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
                      On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
                      Bill/wv1n



                      ------------------------------------

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                      -- 
                      161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                      P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                      (Hopkins Village) Belize
                      011-501-503-7346 Belize
                      011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                      or
                      5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                      Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                      U.S.A.
                      903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                      Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                      LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                      http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                      I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.



                    • Joe V31JP
                      Very correct, DR. If you have as I have and/or made, small pry bars, 2 identical, you can grip the arbour with a smooth jawed vise (covered pads) and I
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 13, 2012
                        Very correct, DR.  If you have as I have and/or made, small pry bars, 2 identical, you can grip the arbour with a smooth jawed vise (covered pads) and I sometimes
                        use leather as an additional protection.  I then can apply pressure upwards on the main bar very close to both sides of the arbour to move it up from where it is gripped.
                        I cover the pry bars as well.  Occasionally, the arbour is not extended or long enough to grip it, then DR's method is used. I, occasionally, can use my staking tool as
                        well, but not a common tool in shops today.

                        On 6/13/2012 1:27 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:  

                        Joe is correct.  It is a machine screw that presses against the arbour (pivot rod) to prevent it from moving - later Vibroplex's do not have this as they are press fit and basically not adjustable.

                        What I do if the height is off on pressure fit arbours is I take a 1 inch think pieces of soft wood that I can hold in my hands 2 by 3 by 1 is fine - I use three soft cloths and I use a bench vise.

                        I disassemble the key and remove the main lever from the trunnion assembly, Be sure to disconnect the grounding braid if the key is a "deluxe" version.

                        I open the vise and cover each side with cloth thick enough to cushion the blow you will be giving in a moment.  I wrap the arbour (pivot rod) with a thin cloth - just to prevent tool marks..

                        Lay the lever across the jaws of the padded vise and close the vise until you are about 1/16 inch from each side of the arbour.  Hold the lever in position and tighten vise until it allows movement of the arbour but doesn't allow it to fall over unless you force it to.  In other words "just holding".

                        Then take a piece of wood - cover the elbow end of the pin with the soft wood and give it a whack with a small hammer.  The pin will go down a bit.

                        You get the idea.

                        73

                        On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Joe V31JP <v31jp1957@...> wrote:


                        That is to hold/lock the pendulum height to the arbour/pivot rod.  Some keys, the hole and pin are a pressed fit, but some use this screw to lock the height or
                        make it more easily adjustable.  I have an Original going to the bench shortly the the pendulum is too low and I have to raise it. It is a press fit.  A challenge here as
                        my tools are at home in Belize.


                        -- 
                        161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                        P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                        (Hopkins Village) Belize
                        011-501-503-7346 Belize
                        011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                        or
                        5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                        Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                        U.S.A.
                        903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                        Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                        LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                        http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                        I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
                      • Joe V31JP
                        Bill, I finally seen the screw you are talking about. On some speed keys, it was a way to fix the height of the pendulum. there are press fit arbours, there
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 16, 2012
                          Bill,

                          I finally seen the screw you are talking about.  On some speed keys, it was a way to fix the height of the pendulum.  there are press fit arbours,
                          there are captured arbours (sandwiched between between two pieces) and some used such a screw, either directly into the arbour or set with
                          a grazing, but capturing position.  I cannot find my reference as to when Vibroplex used that method and discontinued using it.

                          Sorry if this was answered before. I am search for some e-mails and cleaning up/out others.

                          On 6/13/2012 12:37 PM, William Schmidt wrote:
                           

                          It's on the views marked "partial view".  On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I've seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes.


                          To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                          From: n1ea@...
                          Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:59:10 -0400
                          Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

                           

                          Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.
                          http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm
                          DR

                          =30=



                          On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
                          On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
                          Bill/wv1n



                          ------------------------------------

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                          -- 
                          161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                          P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                          (Hopkins Village) Belize
                          011-501-503-7346 Belize
                          011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                          or
                          5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                          Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                          U.S.A.
                          903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                          Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                          LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                          http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                          I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
                        • WILLIS COOKE
                          I have several Vibroplex keys.  The only one with this screw is the only one with jeweled bearings.  Perhaps there is a connection.   Willis Cookie Cooke
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 16, 2012
                            I have several Vibroplex keys.  The only one with this screw is the only one with jeweled bearings.  Perhaps there is a connection.
                             
                            Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
                            K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart

                            From: Joe V31JP <v31jp1957@...>
                            To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:10 PM
                            Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

                             
                            Bill,

                            I finally seen the screw you are talking about.  On some speed keys, it was a way to fix the height of the pendulum.  there are press fit arbours,
                            there are captured arbours (sandwiched between between two pieces) and some used such a screw, either directly into the arbour or set with
                            a grazing, but capturing position.  I cannot find my reference as to when Vibroplex used that method and discontinued using it.

                            Sorry if this was answered before. I am search for some e-mails and cleaning up/out others.

                            On 6/13/2012 12:37 PM, William Schmidt wrote:
                             
                            It's on the views marked "partial view".  On the Frattini j36 is an allen wrench adjustment but I've seen regular slotted screws on vibroplexes.


                            To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                            From: n1ea@...
                            Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:59:10 -0400
                            Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Lightning bug question

                             

                            Tell us where you can see this screw.  I don't see it.
                            http://www.i1qod.it/j36basenera.htm
                            DR

                            =30=



                            On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM, William <fretjock@...> wrote:
                            On several, but not all, lightning bugs I noticed a small screw just distal to the dash tension spring.  It's presence is not noted on the lightning machine drawing located on the vibroplex site but I have seen it on several ebay pictures and it is also present on the Frattini J38 reproduction.  Does anyone know it's purpose?
                            Bill/wv1n



                            ------------------------------------

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                            -- 
                            161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                            P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                            (Hopkins Village) Belize
                            011-501-503-7346 Belize
                            011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                            or
                            5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                            Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                            U.S.A.
                            903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                            Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                            LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                            http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                            I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.


                          • Joe V31JP
                            My Vibroplex Champion, 1952 has the capture screw for the arbour or trunion pin. It is an slotted oval head screw that is in the dot bar. All of my other keys
                            Message 13 of 14 , Sep 16, 2012
                              My Vibroplex Champion, 1952 has the capture screw for the arbour or trunion pin.  It is an slotted oval head screw that is in the dot bar.
                              All of my other keys here are press fit, from the 1913, 1920, 1928, a friends 1945 to my 1991 original.

                              The Deluxe had a fillister head screw that captured a small ring lug on a ground wire.  That ground wire went down to a screw
                              on the bottom back side of the yoke.  Because the Deluxe had a jewelled bearing, the trunion could not supply ground to the
                              dot and dash bars, thus no ground to the dot or dash contacts when they were closed.

                              But the screw that Bill asked about, I saw it on the Italian bug and it is a hex set screw and some Vibroplex had the screw in nearly
                              the same spot for locking the dot bar's height.  I did not even realize my '52 Champion had it until I just looked at all my keys here
                              in Texas.

                              If you look at the parts list for an Original, Part# O-29  or 1005 is for a trunion lock screw, but you will not find it in the machine drawing.
                              Same with the Champion, except it part number C-26 or 1005.

                              On 9/16/2012 10:45 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
                              I have several Vibroplex keys.  The only one with this screw is the only one with jeweled bearings.  Perhaps there is a connection.
                               
                              Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
                              K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart

                              -- 
                              161, Joe, Ronnie(Rowena), Marty & Sidney Pontek
                              P.O. Box 280, Dangriga, Stann Creek District
                              (Hopkins Village) Belize
                              011-501-503-7346 Belize
                              011-501-666-3564 Belize (cellular)
                              or
                              5204 Texas Highway 49 W
                              Omaha, TX 75571-6474
                              U.S.A.
                              903-424-4267 (My cellular when in Texas)
                              Also, K8JP, member FOC1743,CWops876,QCWA-LM21894,OOTC4607,A1OP,SKCC3171T,NAQCC5798,FISTS7625CC951,FP-2819
                              LotW  Skype: v31joepalooka
                              http://www.justanswer.com/lp-1eh8-tool-repair
                              I am looking for Vibroplex Model X, Double lever, Zephyr, Lionel J-36 and prefer basket cases to restore.
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