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Vibroplex JR hybrids

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  • Michael MacLeod
    Hello folks A quick question on something that s bothering me about one of my bugs, on the Martin JR hybrid bugs such as a JR with #4 hardware mounted on it,
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 6, 2011
      Hello folks

      A quick question on something that's bothering me about one of my bugs, on the Martin JR hybrid bugs such as a JR with #4 hardware mounted on it, should I expect to find the old holes for the intended L type damper?

      Also would one expect the bolts holding the U type damper to be recessed and flush with the base, or protruding?

      Pictures appreciated if anyone can provide!

      Thanks.

      Michael - MM1EWA/KD0LEJ
    • Fred Maas
      All of those old Juniors were special order. they weren t modified something else s, so don t expect to find holes for something else. Vibroplex seemed to
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 6, 2011
        All of those old Juniors were special order.  they weren't modified something else's, so don't expect to find holes for something else.

        Vibroplex seemed to make what was requested.  Most Juniors, as you know I have a rcord of those which have "surfaced," were "originals" on a narrow base.  this was done as early as 1907.  since the Junior was not an advertised bug, it can not be said what defines a Junior.  In other wrods,I wouldn't call a #$ on a three inch base, a Junior.  It is a #4 on a three inch base.  It is a special order #4. I would have no absolute expectations.  they used what parts were on the bench.

        73  Fred - kt5x



        On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Michael MacLeod <mm1ewa@...> wrote:
         

        Hello folks

        A quick question on something that's bothering me about one of my bugs, on the Martin JR hybrid bugs such as a JR with #4 hardware mounted on it, should I expect to find the old holes for the intended L type damper?

        Also would one expect the bolts holding the U type damper to be recessed and flush with the base, or protruding?

        Pictures appreciated if anyone can provide!

        Thanks.

        Michael - MM1EWA/KD0LEJ


      • David Holley
        Michael & Group, I hope I can answer some of your questions about the old Martin Jr #4 hybrids. First on all the examples I have there are not any extra holes
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 6, 2011
          Michael & Group,

          I hope I can answer some of your questions about the old Martin Jr #4 hybrids. First on all the examples I have there are not any extra holes for an L shape damper. The bases were all drilled for the #4 hardware. As for your question on the damper bolts being counter sunk or exposed, I believe that they are just normal rounded head Vibroplex machine screws. I am away so I can't double check right now. There is a difference between the #4 Martin hybrids made in the early 1920's compared to the ones made in the 1930's. The early ones were based on the Martin Junior with close spaced terminals and upside down labels. The later ones look to have been a custom job based on the #4. These have wide spaced terminals and normal label orientation. I would be glad to send you some pictures of my keys if you like.


          73 de Dave

          Sent from my iPad
        • Michael MacLeod
          Thanks Fred & Dave,  Might as well go on with 2nd question then :-) The T bar style damper, It appeared on #4s and Originals (as well as X) around 1920s, the
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 6, 2011

            Thanks Fred & Dave, 


            Might as well go on with 2nd question then :-) The T bar style damper, It appeared on #4s and Originals (as well as X) around 1920s, the period overlaps with Martin JR production, so the question is are any examples of Martin JR bugs with T bar damper known to exist? either as a 3" original or a #4 on a wide base?


            Cheers


            Michael - MM1EWA/KD0LEJ

            --- On Wed, 6/7/11, David Holley <dholley@...> wrote:

            From: David Holley <dholley@...>
            Subject: [cw_bugs] Re: Vibroplex JR hybrids
            To: "cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com" <cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Wednesday, 6 July, 2011, 14:29

             

            Michael & Group,

            I hope I can answer some of your questions about the old Martin Jr #4 hybrids. First on all the examples I have there are not any extra holes for an L shape damper. The bases were all drilled for the #4 hardware. As for your question on the damper bolts being counter sunk or exposed, I believe that they are just normal rounded head Vibroplex machine screws. I am away so I can't double check right now. There is a difference between the #4 Martin hybrids made in the early 1920's compared to the ones made in the 1930's. The early ones were based on the Martin Junior with close spaced terminals and upside down labels. The later ones look to have been a custom job based on the #4. These have wide spaced terminals and normal label orientation. I would be glad to send you some pictures of my keys if you like.

            73 de Dave

            Sent from my iPad

          • David Holley
            Michael & Group, As for you latest question, I have examples of the three keys you mentioned but have never seen a Martin Junior with T bar damper. It is
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 6, 2011
              Michael & Group,

              As for you latest question, I have examples of the three keys you mentioned but have never seen a Martin Junior with T bar damper. It is possible that one exists somewhere but in collecting Vibroplex for over 25 years I have never run across one. I have kept a listing of T bar damper keys for several years and they are rather common on Originals but much less so on #4's. One of the most interesting keys in my collection is a #4 on a 3 inch base that was put into a glass dome trophy case when new. It was probably special ordered for the OM for a retirement award. I haven't seen many Vibroplex from that era that were truly in new condition.

              De Dave N5MO

              Sent from my iPad
            • Fred Maas
              I have a list of 136 Juniors, and I don t recall any with the T-Bar damper. Vibroplex wasted no parts. The T-damper came from the X keys. When they
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 6, 2011
                I have a list of 136 Juniors, and I don't recall any with the T-Bar damper.

                Vibroplex wasted no parts.  The T-damper came from the X keys.  When they discontinued the X keys, they still had a stock of T-dampers, so they used them until they ran out.  It is that simple.

                What wasn't so simple is the boxed dash lever.  the so called "improved" dash lever was introduced along with the D lables in about 1920.  the improved dash lever was a manufacturing improvement, but arguably not a functional improvement.  Apparently there were some of the box levers remaining at the change over because a few reappear on #6's in 1939, and again on Standard Radio (Air Force military order) bugs in 1943,  but only the earliest ones made.  They seemed to use up the last of that NOS for that project.

                fred

                On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Michael MacLeod <mm1ewa@...> wrote:
                 

                Thanks Fred & Dave, 


                Might as well go on with 2nd question then :-) The T bar style damper, It appeared on #4s and Originals (as well as X) around 1920s, the period overlaps with Martin JR production, so the question is are any examples of Martin JR bugs with T bar damper known to exist? either as a 3" original or a #4 on a wide base?


                Cheers



              • Fred Maas
                That s interesting, Dave. I do have one (a Junior) that is in near new condition. Most were heavily used by professionals as they were special order keys for
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 6, 2011
                  That's interesting, Dave.  I do have one (a Junior) that is in near new condition.  Most were heavily used by professionals as they were special order keys for the purpose of being carried to work in one's coat pocket, by ops for whom the #4 was just too light on the desk to stay still. 

                  mine is one of two, almost adjacent serials, with chromed (not nickeled) hardware.  I know that mine was special ordered by a professional telegrapher as a Christmas gift for his 12 year old son, and I am betting the other was ordered at the same time for some other professional's kid.  thus mine never worked for a living, either, eventually passed through several generations until sold to me.  it is about my favorite bug to use in part because it is so handsome.

                  73  fred kt5x

                  On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:41 PM, David Holley <dholley@...> wrote:
                   

                  Michael & Group,

                  As for you latest question, I have examples of the three keys you mentioned but have never seen a Martin Junior with T bar damper. It is possible that one exists somewhere but in collecting Vibroplex for over 25 years I have never run across one. I have kept a listing of T bar damper keys for several years and they are rather common on Originals but much less so on #4's. One of the most interesting keys in my collection is a #4 on a 3 inch base that was put into a glass dome trophy case when new. It was probably special ordered for the OM for a retirement award. I haven't seen many Vibroplex from that era that were truly in new condition.

                  De Dave N5MO

                  Sent from my iPad


                • Michael MacLeod
                  Thanks Dave/Fred I ve wondered about the possibility of a Martin Jr existing with the T bar as the time period overlaps, theoretically they could have been
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 6, 2011

                    Thanks Dave/Fred


                    I've wondered about the possibility of a Martin Jr existing with the T bar as the time period overlaps, theoretically they could have been made I guess.


                    I have a JR with a U damper but other hardware is what one would expect for a JR, I suspect its been retro fitted with the U damper :-(


                    Cheers


                    Michael - MM1EWA/KD0LEJ

                    --- On Wed, 6/7/11, Fred Maas <just.one.hill@...> wrote:

                    From: Fred Maas <just.one.hill@...>
                    Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] Re: Vibroplex JR hybrids
                    To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, 6 July, 2011, 18:43

                     

                    I have a list of 136 Juniors, and I don't recall any with the T-Bar damper.

                    Vibroplex wasted no parts.  The T-damper came from the X keys.  When they discontinued the X keys, they still had a stock of T-dampers, so they used them until they ran out.  It is that simple.

                    What wasn't so simple is the boxed dash lever.  the so called "improved" dash lever was introduced along with the D lables in about 1920.  the improved dash lever was a manufacturing improvement, but arguably not a functional improvement.  Apparently there were some of the box levers remaining at the change over because a few reappear on #6's in 1939, and again on Standard Radio (Air Force military order) bugs in 1943,  but only the earliest ones made.  They seemed to use up the last of that NOS for that project.

                    fred

                    On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Michael MacLeod <mm1ewa@...> wrote:
                     

                    Thanks Fred & Dave, 


                    Might as well go on with 2nd question then :-) The T bar style damper, It appeared on #4s and Originals (as well as X) around 1920s, the period overlaps with Martin JR production, so the question is are any examples of Martin JR bugs with T bar damper known to exist? either as a 3" original or a #4 on a wide base?


                    Cheers



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