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somewhat OT

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  • jerome
    If I were not at my wits end, I would not sully this list with a non-bug question like this. Hopefully you will be kind as I am old and fragile. Along with my
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 24, 2009
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      If I were not at my wits end, I would not sully this list with a non-bug question like this. Hopefully you will be kind as I am old and fragile.

      Along with my bugs various, I have a VibroKeyer (single lever) grey crackle base with jeweled bearing. I bought it used in 1970 and it's been fine, but has certainly seen a lot of use over the years. I've always been able to adjust it with no problems.

      It now has devloped a problem that I can't seem to fix. To wit: when sending a dash, it sends also a trailing dot. Not always but maybe 50% of the time. I can visually see what happens: upon completion of a dash, the lever arm snaps back and moves toward the dot contact post. It's very very fast but you can see it happen. If I put a piece of paper between the dot contacts you can see that it actually hits the paper for an instant.

      I've had the lever arm off and re-installed it, and adjusted everthing again and again. It then works OK for a few minutes, only to fail once more as above.

      The arm is always adjusted so there is freedom of movement but no vertical play.

      What now to look for? Is it new pivot time?

      Thanks for any ideas.
      Jerome - VA7VV
      Vancouver
    • Ron Johnson
      Hi Jerome,              I had that problem and solved it by adjusting the dot return spring for more tension. Any good? Regards,Ron g3xov ... From:
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 25, 2009
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        Hi Jerome,
                     I had that problem and solved it by adjusting
        the dot return spring for more tension.
        Any good?
        Regards,Ron g3xov


        --- On Thu, 25/6/09, jerome <romansky2002@...> wrote:

        From: jerome <romansky2002@...>
        Subject: [cw_bugs] somewhat OT
        To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, 25 June, 2009, 7:42 AM

        If I were not at my wits end, I would not sully this list with a non-bug question like this. Hopefully you will be kind as I am old and fragile.

        Along with my bugs various, I have a VibroKeyer (single lever) grey crackle base with jeweled bearing. I bought it used in 1970 and it's been fine, but has certainly seen a lot of use over the years. I've always been able to adjust it with no problems.

        It now has devloped a problem that I can't seem to fix. To wit: when sending a dash, it sends also a trailing dot. Not always but maybe 50% of the time. I can visually see what happens: upon completion of a dash, the lever arm snaps back and moves toward the dot contact post. It's very very fast but you can see it happen. If I put a piece of paper between the dot contacts you can see that it actually hits the paper for an instant.

        I've had the lever arm off and re-installed it, and adjusted everthing again and again. It then works OK for a few minutes, only to fail once more as above.

        The arm is always adjusted so there is freedom of movement but no vertical play.

        What now to look for? Is it new pivot time?

        Thanks for any ideas.
        Jerome - VA7VV
        Vancouver

      • romers romansky
        ... From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] somewhat OT To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 12:32 AM Hi
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 25, 2009
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          --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Ron Johnson <ron538@...> wrote:

          From: Ron Johnson <ron538@...>
          Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] somewhat OT
          To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 12:32 AM



          Hi Jerome,             I had that problem and solved it by adjustingthe dot return spring for more tension.Any good?Regards,Ron g3xov

          Ron... I increased the dot return spring tension until the trailing dots disappeared. That seems to solve the problem, albeit with increasing force necessary to engage the dot side compared with before. I can live with it though.

          Thanks,
          jerome - VA7VV
        • David Ring
          Jerome, You say that your Vibrokeyer is a jeweled movement but has a painted base. I believe the VibroKeyer was introduced in 1960 and that it had a standard
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 25, 2009
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            Jerome,

            You say that your Vibrokeyer is a jeweled movement but has a painted base.  I believe the VibroKeyer was introduced in 1960 and that it had a standard model (painted base) and a chrome base with the jeweled bearing.

            I've seen the jeweled bearings crack because someone tightened the trunnion (top and bottom screws) too much. 

            The top trunnion screw on the deluxe models with the jeweled bearings was changed after World War IIs so that it was no longer adjustable and a red plastic decorative piece was placed in the top hole to cover up the drilled hole from which would have emerged the top trunnion screw..

            The jeweled movement trunnion screw is still adjustable - but only from the bottom.

            You will need a medium blade long handle - eight inches long should do - slotted screw driver.  You must loosen the screw which binds the bottom trunnion screw from moving.  This set screw is located on the bottom of the U shaped frame towards the back (away from the operator) of the U shaped frame.  You'll have to put the screw driver in from the end of the key under the vibrator, but you'll see the screw at the base of the U shaped frame and you'll be able to loosen it.

            When you've loosened it, you can back off the bottom trunnion screw located on the underside of the base.  Just loosen it enough for the key lever to be removed.  WATCH carefully to see if there is a silver braid attached to the key lever to the frame - you must disconnect this (from the frame end is best).  This silver braid only exists on early models of the deluxe VibroKeyer and was "replaced" by the ground contact circuit being made by the dot spring - which often causes problems with grease (from hands) getting on the spring and making poor ground for the key lever.  The jeweled bearings don't conduct. so all ground conduction is done via the dot spring or the early silver braid.

            Once removed, you can clean out the bearings - if they are indeed the red ruby ones - check for cracks - if cracked you will need a new bearing, if they are just standard bearings, just clean them out - I juse a toothpick and a cotton swab.

            73

            David Ring, N1EA
             

             

            On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:46 PM, romers romansky <romansky2002@...> wrote:


            --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Ron Johnson <ron538@...> wrote:

            From: Ron Johnson <ron538@...>
            Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] somewhat OT
            Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 12:32 AM



            Hi Jerome,             I had that problem and solved it by adjustingthe dot return spring for more tension.Any good?Regards,Ron g3xov

            Ron... I increased the dot return spring tension until the trailing dots disappeared. That seems to solve the problem, albeit with increasing force necessary to engage the dot side compared with before. I can live with it though.

            Thanks,
            jerome - VA7VV


            ------------------------------------
          • romers romansky
            Hi David and thanks for the instructive reply. Well, it does have a painted base and no adjustable top trunnion screw; only a hole for the red plastic insert
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 25, 2009
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              Hi David and thanks for the instructive reply.

              Well, it does have a painted base and no adjustable top trunnion screw; only a hole for the red plastic insert to cover the hole. The top bearing needs be tightened against the U frame from what I can see, and as you say is not adjustable. There is a silver braid between the arm and the bottom of the U frame. I knew about the screw in the bottom of the U frame from adjusting my bugs.

              Too bad I didn't think to look at the bearings when I had the arm removed. The braid BTW, was long enough to slide the arm out of the way. Next chance I get I will remove the bottom bearing and see what I've got.

              Are you suggesting that the jewelled bearings do not need to be cleaned? And I presume that even though it is not adjustable, the top bearing would be jewelled as well if the bottom was.

              The serial number on this device is 258644 with the brass plate running in the same direction as the arm.

              Finally, as Ron suggested below, adding more tension on the dot return spring seems to have solved the problem of the trailing dots.

              Jerome


              --- On Thu, 6/25/09, David Ring <n1ea@...> wrote:

              From: David Ring <n1ea@...>
              Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] somewhat OT
              To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:16 PM



              Jerome,

              You say that your Vibrokeyer is a jeweled movement but has a painted base.  I believe the VibroKeyer was introduced in 1960 and that it had a standard model (painted base) and a chrome base with the jeweled bearing.
              I've seen the jeweled bearings crack because someone tightened the trunnion (top and bottom screws) too much. 
              The top trunnion screw on the deluxe models with the jeweled bearings was changed after World War IIs so that it was no longer adjustable and a red plastic decorative piece was placed in the top hole to cover up the drilled hole from which would have emerged the top trunnion screw..
              The jeweled movement trunnion screw is still adjustable - but only from the bottom.
              You will need a medium blade long handle - eight inches long should do - slotted screw driver.  You must loosen the screw which binds the bottom trunnion screw from moving.  This set screw is located on the bottom of the U shaped frame towards the back (away from the operator) of the U shaped frame.  You'll have to put the screw driver in from the end of the key under the vibrator, but you'll see the screw at the base of the U shaped frame and you'll be able to loosen it.
              When you've loosened it, you can back off the bottom trunnion screw located on the underside of the base.  Just loosen it enough for the key lever to be removed.  WATCH carefully to see if there is a silver braid attached to the key lever to the frame - you must disconnect this (from the frame end is best).  This silver braid only exists on early models of the deluxe VibroKeyer and was "replaced" by the ground contact circuit being made by the dot spring - which often causes problems with grease (from hands) getting on the spring and making poor ground for the key lever.  The jeweled bearings don't conduct. so all ground conduction is done via the dot spring or the early silver braid.
              Once removed, you can clean out the bearings - if they are indeed the red ruby ones - check for cracks - if cracked you will need a new bearing, if they are just standard bearings, just clean them out - I juse a toothpick and a cotton swab.
              73
              David Ring, N1EA 
               
              On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:46 PM, romers romansky <romansky2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:


              --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Ron Johnson <ron538@btinternet. com> wrote:

              From: Ron Johnson <ron538@btinternet. com>
              Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] somewhat OT
              To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups .com
              Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 12:32 AM



              Hi Jerome,             I had that problem and solved it by adjustingthe dot return spring for more tension.Any good?Regards, Ron g3xov

              Ron... I increased the dot return spring tension until the trailing dots disappeared. That seems to solve the problem, albeit with increasing force necessary to engage the dot side compared with before. I can live with it though.

              Thanks,
              jerome - VA7VV
            • David Ring
              Both the top and bottom bearings should have a red colored jewel in the cup and the elbow of the trunnion screw that runs through the lever should be rounded
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 25, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Both the top and bottom bearings should have a red colored jewel in the cup and the elbow of the trunnion screw that runs through the lever should be rounded and not pointed as the regular bearings are.

                The top adjustment was removed because "curious" fingers tightened the adjustment screw too much and cracked the jewel bearing.

                The lever should have a minimum up/down movement and should move freely back and forth.  You can clean the jewel cup with a toothpick and some cotton and maybe a bit of amonnia to degrease.

                73
                DR 

                On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:12 PM, romers romansky <romansky2002@...> wrote:

                Hi David and thanks for the instructive reply.

                Well, it does have a painted base and no adjustable top trunnion screw; only a hole for the red plastic insert to cover the hole. The top bearing needs be tightened against the U frame from what I can see, and as you say is not adjustable. There is a silver braid between the arm and the bottom of the U frame. I knew about the screw in the bottom of the U frame from adjusting my bugs.

                Too bad I didn't think to look at the bearings when I had the arm removed. The braid BTW, was long enough to slide the arm out of the way. Next chance I get I will remove the bottom bearing and see what I've got.

                Are you suggesting that the jewelled bearings do not need to be cleaned? And I presume that even though it is not adjustable, the top bearing would be jewelled as well if the bottom was.

                The serial number on this device is 258644 with the brass plate running in the same direction as the arm.

                Finally, as Ron suggested below, adding more tension on the dot return spring seems to have solved the problem of the trailing dots.

                Jerome


                --- On Thu, 6/25/09, David Ring <n1ea@...> wrote:

                From: David Ring <n1ea@...>
                Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] somewhat OT
                To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 4:16 PM



                Jerome,

                You say that your Vibrokeyer is a jeweled movement but has a painted base.  I believe the VibroKeyer was introduced in 1960 and that it had a standard model (painted base) and a chrome base with the jeweled bearing.
                I've seen the jeweled bearings crack because someone tightened the trunnion (top and bottom screws) too much. 
                The top trunnion screw on the deluxe models with the jeweled bearings was changed after World War IIs so that it was no longer adjustable and a red plastic decorative piece was placed in the top hole to cover up the drilled hole from which would have emerged the top trunnion screw..
                The jeweled movement trunnion screw is still adjustable - but only from the bottom.
                You will need a medium blade long handle - eight inches long should do - slotted screw driver.  You must loosen the screw which binds the bottom trunnion screw from moving.  This set screw is located on the bottom of the U shaped frame towards the back (away from the operator) of the U shaped frame.  You'll have to put the screw driver in from the end of the key under the vibrator, but you'll see the screw at the base of the U shaped frame and you'll be able to loosen it.
                When you've loosened it, you can back off the bottom trunnion screw located on the underside of the base.  Just loosen it enough for the key lever to be removed.  WATCH carefully to see if there is a silver braid attached to the key lever to the frame - you must disconnect this (from the frame end is best).  This silver braid only exists on early models of the deluxe VibroKeyer and was "replaced" by the ground contact circuit being made by the dot spring - which often causes problems with grease (from hands) getting on the spring and making poor ground for the key lever.  The jeweled bearings don't conduct. so all ground conduction is done via the dot spring or the early silver braid.
                Once removed, you can clean out the bearings - if they are indeed the red ruby ones - check for cracks - if cracked you will need a new bearing, if they are just standard bearings, just clean them out - I juse a toothpick and a cotton swab.
                73
                David Ring, N1EA 
                 
                On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:46 PM, romers romansky <romansky2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:


                 --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Ron Johnson <ron538@btinternet. com> wrote:

                 From: Ron Johnson <ron538@btinternet. com>
                 Subject: Re: [cw_bugs] somewhat OT
                To: cw_bugs@yahoogroups .com
                Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 12:32 AM



                 Hi Jerome,             I had that problem and solved it by adjustingthe dot return spring for more tension.Any good?Regards, Ron g3xov

                 Ron... I increased the dot return spring tension until the trailing dots disappeared. That seems to solve the problem, albeit with increasing force necessary to engage the dot side compared with before. I can live with it though.

                 Thanks,
                 jerome - VA7VV




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              • Earl Needham
                I think this was just fine. Honestly I am often concerned that the list has NO traffic. 7 3 Earl KD4XB Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 25, 2009
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                  I think this was just fine. Honestly I am often concerned that the list has NO traffic.

                  7 3
                  Earl
                  KD4XB

                  Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


                  From: "jerome"
                  Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:42:59 -0000
                  To: <cw_bugs@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: [cw_bugs] somewhat OT

                  If I were not at my wits end, I would not sully this list with a non-bug question like this. Hopefully you will be kind as I am old and fragile.

                  Along with my bugs various, I have a VibroKeyer (single lever) grey crackle base with jeweled bearing. I bought it used in 1970 and it's been fine, but has certainly seen a lot of use over the years. I've always been able to adjust it with no problems.

                  It now has devloped a problem that I can't seem to fix. To wit: when sending a dash, it sends also a trailing dot. Not always but maybe 50% of the time. I can visually see what happens: upon completion of a dash, the lever arm snaps back and moves toward the dot contact post. It's very very fast but you can see it happen. If I put a piece of paper between the dot contacts you can see that it actually hits the paper for an instant.

                  I've had the lever arm off and re-installed it, and adjusted everthing again and again. It then works OK for a few minutes, only to fail once more as above.

                  The arm is always adjusted so there is freedom of movement but no vertical play.

                  What now to look for? Is it new pivot time?

                  Thanks for any ideas.
                  Jerome - VA7VV
                  Vancouver

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