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Skill Based Mechanics System Compatability

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  • tooley1chris
    I ve been making a skill based (instead of XP) RPG system for a while now and was wondering if metacreator is a good choice for incorporating into a character
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 4, 2013
      I've been making a skill based (instead of XP) RPG system for a while now and was wondering if metacreator is a good choice for incorporating into a character creator.
      Has anyone familiar with this product tried/seen such a thing?
      The game is similar mechanically to say Morrowind series. Raising skills raises levels but no real classes.
    • Pelle Kofod
      Could you go into some detail on what you mean by skill-based as opposed to XP-based ? I would call systems such as Call of Cthulhu or Ars Magica skill
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 4, 2013
        Could you go into some detail on what you mean by 'skill-based' as
        opposed to 'XP-based'?
        I would call systems such as Call of Cthulhu or Ars Magica skill based
        (in mechanism), despite using an XP mechanism (well, Ars does anyway).
        they do not use levels however.

        If so, I must say that metacreator is absolutely a dream for such systems.

        On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:56 PM, tooley1chris <christooley69@...> wrote:
        > I've been making a skill based (instead of XP) RPG system for a while now and was wondering if metacreator is a good choice for incorporating into a character creator.
        > Has anyone familiar with this product tried/seen such a thing?
        > The game is similar mechanically to say Morrowind series. Raising skills raises levels but no real classes.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > --------------
        > Find out more about Metacreator by visiting Alter Ego Software at http://www.alteregosoftware.com.Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • tooley1chris
        By skill based, I mean that you raise skills by using them. Raise so many skills and you gain a level of expertise. I m not at all familiar with ARS or Cthulhu
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 4, 2013
          By skill based, I mean that you raise skills by using them. Raise so many skills and you gain a level of expertise. I'm not at all familiar with ARS or Cthulhu so I can't compare and thought I'd ask here before purchasing the Creator.
          I bought Herolab for this awhile back and talk about a learning curve! Am hoping Meta is a little easier to learn. I have the system almost complete on paper but having a generator that runs my system will make creating a creature compendium leaps and bounds easier.


          --- In cw@yahoogroups.com, Pelle Kofod wrote:
          >
          > Could you go into some detail on what you mean by 'skill-based' as
          > opposed to 'XP-based'?
          > I would call systems such as Call of Cthulhu or Ars Magica skill based
          > (in mechanism), despite using an XP mechanism (well, Ars does anyway).
          > they do not use levels however.
          >
          > If so, I must say that metacreator is absolutely a dream for such systems.
          >
          > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:56 PM, tooley1chris wrote:
          > > I've been making a skill based (instead of XP) RPG system for a while now and was wondering if metacreator is a good choice for incorporating into a character creator.
          > > Has anyone familiar with this product tried/seen such a thing?
          > > The game is similar mechanically to say Morrowind series. Raising skills raises levels but no real classes.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > --------------
          > > Find out more about Metacreator by visiting Alter Ego Software at http://www.alteregosoftware.com.Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Steve S.
          ... This is exactly how Cthulhu works; it s part of the Chaosium BRP family (BRP = Pasic Role Playing), which originally began with RuneQuest. So far as I
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 4, 2013
            On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:28 AM, tooley1chris <christooley69@...> wrote:

            > By skill based, I mean that you raise skills by using them.

            This is exactly how Cthulhu works; it's part of the Chaosium "BRP" family
            (BRP = Pasic Role Playing), which originally began with RuneQuest. So
            far as I know, they were the first RPG to use such a mechanic.

            You may want to look at BRP, which includes several versions licensed
            with "Open Game" or "Creative Commons" or similar licenses. See the
            "BRP Central" website (http://basicroleplaying.com) to get started. There
            has been quite the explosion of BRP games in the past decade or so...
            modern military/merc, Historic Rome, Steampunk, Merrie England,
            Anime-Mecha, etc...


            > Raise so many skills and you gain a level of expertise.

            I don't believe any of the BRP family use "levels" this way -- just the skills
            themselves, directly applied. Synergistic effects tend to cluster "related"
            skills together, and avoid others, such that you often see something "like"
            class'ing as high-DEX / low-STR characters tend to focus on "thief-like"
            skills (and high-STR/high-CON characters tend to end up with lots of
            front-line-fighter skills... etc etc etc); but in principle there's no reason a
            character couldn't have skills beyond -- even "contrary to" -- such a
            presumed cluster or focus. Indeed many PC's have a skill or two that
            give them "hole card" potential and/or something to do so the players
            aren't bored (and their characters aren't deadweight on the party) when
            the situation doesn't play to their primary focus...


            > I'm not at all familiar with ARS
            > or Cthulhu so I can't compare and thought I'd ask here before purchasing the
            > Creator.

            Ars Magica uses XP's, but applies them straight into buying skills, just like
            the build-points during character-generation buys skills.
            Use-of-skill to improve
            the skill isn't part of Ars Magica (though it'd be easy enough to retrofit).

            - sTEVE s.


            --
            "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of
            childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -CS Lewis
          • Bruce Kvam
            The more complex your system is, the more difficult it will be to implement in a character creation application. If your skill-raising mechanic is more
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 4, 2013
              The more complex your system is, the more difficult it will be to
              implement in a character creation application. If your skill-raising
              mechanic is more complicated than a simple expression based on the
              number of XP or a count of skill uses (which is essentially the same as
              XP, it's just limiting the XP to improving that skill), then you will
              have to code that in some way.

              However, without an exact description of the mechanics, it's not
              possible to make an informed evaluation of the appropriateness of one
              tool or another.

              On 2/4/13 11:28 AM, tooley1chris wrote:
              > By skill based, I mean that you raise skills by using them. Raise so many skills and you gain a level of expertise. I'm not at all familiar with ARS or Cthulhu so I can't compare and thought I'd ask here before purchasing the Creator.
              > I bought Herolab for this awhile back and talk about a learning curve! Am hoping Meta is a little easier to learn. I have the system almost complete on paper but having a generator that runs my system will make creating a creature compendium leaps and bounds easier.
              >
            • ckirmser
              This is pretty much how Cthulhu works - there are no XPs, just increases based upon use. So, I guess the answer to your question would be - Yes. On Mon, Feb 4,
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 4, 2013
                This is pretty much how Cthulhu works - there are no XPs, just increases based upon use.

                So, I guess the answer to your question would be - Yes.


                On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 11:28 AM, tooley1chris wrote:

                   By skill based, I mean that you raise skills by using them. Raise so many skills and you gain a level of expertise. I'm not at all familiar with ARS or Cthulhu so I can't compare and thought I'd ask here before purchasing the Creator.
                I bought Herolab for this awhile back and talk about a learning curve! Am hoping Meta is a little easier to learn. I have the system almost complete on paper but having a generator that runs my system will make creating a creature compendium leaps and bounds easier.

                --- In cw@yahoogroups.com, Pelle Kofod  wrote:
                >
                > Could you go into some detail on what you mean by 'skill-based' as
                > opposed to 'XP-based'?
                > I would call systems such as Call of Cthulhu or Ars Magica skill based
                > (in mechanism), despite using an XP mechanism (well, Ars does anyway).
                > they do not use levels however.
                >
                > If so, I must say that metacreator is absolutely a dream for such systems.
                >
                > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:56 PM, tooley1chris  wrote:
                > > I've been making a skill based (instead of XP) RPG system for a while now and was wondering if metacreator is a good choice for incorporating into a character creator.
                > > Has anyone familiar with this product tried/seen such a thing?
                > > The game is similar mechanically to say Morrowind series.  Raising skills raises levels but no real classes.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > --------------
                > > Find out more about Metacreator by visiting Alter Ego Software at http://www.alteregosoftware.com.Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >

              • tooley1chris
                Not sure how happy I am to hear I m reinventing the wheel. LOL. But I sure appreciate the input. Thanks much!
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 4, 2013
                  Not sure how happy I am to hear I'm reinventing the wheel. LOL. But I sure appreciate the input. Thanks much!


                  --- In cw@yahoogroups.com, ckirmser@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > This is pretty much how Cthulhu works - there are no XPs, just increases
                  > based upon use.
                  >
                  > So, I guess the answer to your question would be - Yes.
                  >
                  > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 11:28 AM, tooley1chris wrote:
                  >
                  > By skill based, I mean that you raise skills by using them. Raise so
                  > many skills and you gain a level of expertise. I'm not at all familiar
                  > with ARS or Cthulhu so I can't compare and thought I'd ask here before
                  > purchasing the Creator.
                  > I bought Herolab for this awhile back and talk about a learning curve!
                  > Am hoping Meta is a little easier to learn. I have the system almost
                  > complete on paper but having a generator that runs my system will make
                  > creating a creature compendium leaps and bounds easier.
                  >
                  > --- In cw@yahoogroups.com
                  > ,
                  > Pelle Kofod wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Could you go into some detail on what you mean by 'skill-based' as
                  > > opposed to 'XP-based'? I would call systems such as Call of Cthulhu or
                  > > Ars Magica skill based (in mechanism), despite using an XP mechanism
                  > > (well, Ars does anyway). they do not use levels however.
                  > > If so, I must say that metacreator is absolutely a dream for such
                  > > systems.
                  > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:56 PM, tooley1chris wrote:
                  > >> I've been making a skill based (instead of XP) RPG system for a while
                  > >> now and was wondering if metacreator is a good choice for
                  > >> incorporating into a character creator. Has anyone familiar with this
                  > >> product tried/seen such a thing? The game is similar mechanically to
                  > >> say Morrowind series. Raising skills raises levels but no real
                  > >> classes.
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> ------------------------------------
                  > >> -------------- Find out more about Metacreator by visiting Alter Ego
                  > >> Software at http://www.alteregosoftware.com.Yahoo
                  > >> ! Groups Links
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Pelle Kofod
                  ... Not sure if you re re-inventing the wheel, but do check out Basic Roleplay to see if you are. Might save you some work even :)
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 4, 2013
                    > Not sure how happy I am to hear I'm reinventing the wheel. LOL. But I sure appreciate the input. Thanks much!

                    Not sure if you're re-inventing the wheel, but do check out Basic
                    Roleplay to see if you are. Might save you some work even :)
                  • xyzzy
                    I bought the version of MC that was sold as Gurps Character Builder years ago, and began successfully using it (also years ago) with MC (so I d have just one
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 7, 2013
                      I bought the version of MC that was sold as Gurps Character Builder
                      years ago, and began successfully using it (also years ago) with MC (so
                      I'd have just one installation). Recently, I created a character with
                      'Claws' and I noticed that two of the forms of this advantage did not
                      appear. Instead, what looked like a formula appeared.

                      In the Advantages list, I saw:

                      (Folder) Strikers
                      (Folder) Claws
                      `No Cost`?0:tcfunc(c,@bonus@+a,@mo@,@p@)
                      Claws (Long Talons) 55
                      `No Cost`?0:tcfunc(c,@bonus@+a,@mo@,@p@)
                      Claws (Talons) 40

                      (with appropriate indenting)

                      Here's the relevant code from the .CDS file

                      sublist "Strikers" memlist
                      sublist "Claws" memlist
                      $$zcadv(Claws, 15, , "Super Advantage", , , , "`No
                      Cost`?0:tcfunc(c,@bonus@+a,@mo@,@p@)")
                      opt exp "Damage" "format('cr %s',thr(2+dmgbonus))"
                      add "Reduced Skill" "??0;0;x;x<=0;Must be <= 0"
                      begin add "Reach" "??0;0;x*5;x>=0;Must be >= 0"
                      dispexp "t>0?format('l: t, %+d', 0):format('l: Close, %+d', o)" end
                      end
                      $$zcadv("Claws (Sharp Claws)", 25, , "Super Advantage",
                      , , , "`No Cost`?0:tcfunc(c,@bonus@+a,@mo@,@p@)")
                      opt exp Damage "format('cut %s',thr(dmgbonus))"
                      add "Reduced Skill" "??0;0;x;x<=0;Must be <= 0"
                      begin add "Reach" "??0;0;x*5;x>=0;Must be >= 0"
                      dispexp "t>0?format('l: t, %+d', 0):format('l: Close, %+d', o)" end
                      end
                      $$zcadv("Claws (Long Talons)", 55, , "Super Advantage",
                      , , , , "`No Cost`?0:tcfunc(c,@bonus@+a,@mo@,@p@)")
                      opt exp "Damage" "format('imp %s, cut %s',
                      thr(2+dmgbonus), sw(dmgbonus+2))"
                      add "Reduced Skill" "??0;0;x;x<=0;Must be <= 0"
                      begin add "Reach" "??0;0;x*5;x>=0;Must be >= 0"
                      dispexp "t>0?format('l: t, %+d', 0):format('l: Close, %+d', o)" end
                      end
                      $$zcadv("Claws (Talons)", 40, , "Super Advantage", , ,
                      , , "`No Cost`?0:tcfunc(c,@bonus@+a,@mo@,@p@)")
                      opt exp "Damage" "format('imp %s, cut %s',
                      thr(dmgbonus), sw(dmgbonus))"
                      add "Reduced Skill" "??0;0;x;x<=0;Must be <= 0"
                      begin add "Reach" "??0;0;x*5;x>=0;Must be >= 0"
                      dispexp "t>0?format('l: t, %+d', 0):format('l: Close, %+d', o)" end
                      end
                      end

                      So I edit the datasheet GURPSCompendium.cds inside MC. It looks to me
                      like the cost formulae are being displayed instead of the names. And
                      sure enough, when I get to the relevant macros I see that the cost
                      formulae for the two advantages in question appear to be in the sformat
                      field. No problem, I think. I move them and save the file.

                      This turned out to be a bad idea. The new file won't load. I undo the
                      changes I made (again, inside MC) and save the file again. Nope. Still
                      won't load. Somehow, just saving it from MC broke it. I had to find my
                      old installer, get the file out of it and copy it over the "damaged"
                      file. Since MC saves data files using the tab delimited instead of comma
                      delimited form (as installed, these files use the comma delimited form),
                      the two versions were so different as to make identifying problems most
                      difficult.

                      If you can offer any suggestion why 'Claws' and 'Sharp Claws' do not
                      load properly while 'Claws (Long Talons)' and 'Claws (Talons)' do, or
                      why saving editing and saving this file from within MC breaks it, I'd be
                      most grateful. If you would like to see the entire file, let me know how
                      to send them to you and I'll send them.

                      The load error did not help me much. It reads "Unexpected token
                      'sublist' at line 258". Followed by many other errors which I'm going to
                      guess were the result of trying to continue loading from a corrupted
                      state. After some investigation I discovered that the macro zcadv is
                      defined at line 258 of a file called GURPS.INC, so I've guessed that
                      somehow, saving GURPSCompendium.cds damaged one of the invocations of
                      'zcadv'. But I have no good way to debug this problem. Here is zcadv in
                      case that is useful:

                      # Macro for constant advantages that can have a zero cost.

                      $$macro zcadv(name, cost, prereq, cat, fcost, adj, format, sformat, tcf,
                      varname) {{
                      $$macrodesc("Macro for advantages that have a zero cost when a bonus has
                      been assigned to its variable")
                      $$argdesc(name, "Name of advantage")
                      $$argdesc(cost, "Advantage cost")
                      $$argdesc(prereq: req, "Prerequisities (optional)")
                      $$argdesc(adj: adj, "Adjustments (optiona)")
                      $$argdesc(fcost, "Obsolete argument (omit)")
                      $$argdesc(cat: cat, "Category (optional, multiples separated by
                      semicolons)")
                      $$argdesc(format, "Display format (optional)")
                      $$argdesc(sformat, "Selection format (optional)")
                      $$argdesc(tcf, "Total cost formula")
                      $$argdesc(varname, "Variable name (optional, default is name with
                      non-alpha removed)")

                      $$item($(name))
                      noviolation
                      $$ifnull(cost) $$error(Cost missing in zcadv macro) $$endif

                      $$ifdef(varname)
                      varname "$(varname)"
                      $$else
                      varname "$$exp("replaceString(name, '/[^A-Za-z0-9]/', '')")"
                      $$endif
                      formula x=~x?x:0
                      $$if(cost>0)
                      checkexp x>=0
                      $$else
                      checkexp x<=0
                      $$endif

                      level "$(cost)"
                      cost "$(cost)"

                      $$ifdef(format)
                      format "%0l!$(format)%-14rx'displev(@c@)'%-7r!"
                      $$else
                      format "%0ln%-14rx'displev(@c@)'%-7r!"
                      $$endif
                      $$ifdef(tcf)
                      totalcostformula "`No Cost`?0:($(tcf))"
                      $$else
                      totalcostformula "`No Cost`?0:tcfunc(c,a,@mo@,@p@)"
                      $$endif
                      $$ifdef(sformat) sformat "$(sformat)"
                      $$else sformat "%0ln%-10r!$(cost)"
                      $$endif
                      $$ifdef(adj) adj "$(adj)" $$endif
                      $$ifdef (prereq) prereq "$(prereq)" $$endif
                      $$ifdef(cat) cat "$(cat)" $$endif
                      editdlg 4
                      }}

                      Can I lobby for increasing including more information in error messages?
                      You, as the developer, likely do not need it. But those of us trying to
                      write our own stuff would be helped by every piece you could cram in there.

                      Thanks for any help you can provide.
                    • Bruce Kvam
                      I m looking at this in the debugger, and the error is occurring on Clerical Magic, and is completely unrelated to any changes you might have made. The error is
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 7, 2013
                        I'm looking at this in the debugger, and the error is occurring on Clerical Magic, and is completely unrelated to any changes you might have made. The error is due to an internal processing error, and the line number in the dialog indicates which macro invocation is causing the problem. You can have Metacreator go to a specific line number in a data sheet with CTRL+G to learn what's causing the problem.

                        The GURPS files were all edited by hand, before the advent of tab delimited data sheets. For the time being I recommend editing the CDS files as text. To do this:
                        • Select File > Open...
                        • Enter the name of the data sheet in File name.
                        • Click Files of type and select text file.
                        • Click OK.
                        We'll let you know when we have a resolution for the problem.

                        On 2/7/13 2:53 PM, xyzzy wrote:
                        I bought the version of MC that was sold as Gurps Character Builder 
                        years ago, and began successfully using it (also years ago) with MC (so 
                        I'd have just one installation). Recently, I created a character with 
                        'Claws' and I noticed that two of the forms of this advantage did not 
                        appear. Instead, what looked like a formula appeared.
                        
                        

                      • Support
                        I ve found the source of the problem: the GURPS.inc file made assumptions about how macro arguments are referenced that were no longer true when tab-delimited
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 8, 2013
                          I've found the source of the problem: the GURPS.inc file made
                          assumptions about how macro arguments are referenced that were no longer
                          true when tab-delimited files were introduced, and not all the
                          references were fixed when tab-delimited files were implemented. In
                          particular, the ladv, csupadv and lsupadv macros don't include double
                          quotes around references to certain macro arguments. It worked fine in
                          the comma-delimited CDS files because those macro invocations included
                          the double-quotes, but the MDS files Metacreator writes did not preserve
                          the double quotes.

                          To fix this problem you need to correct that assumption in GURPS.inc. In
                          particular, you need to look for the lines

                          $$ifdef (adj) adj $(adj) $$endif

                          and change them to

                          $$ifdef (adj) adj "$(adj)" $$endif

                          to add the quotes around the reference to $(adj) in ladv and csupadv. A
                          similar problem exists for lsupadv with the reference to both $(adj) and
                          $(checkexp).

                          After I made those changes to the include file, the file that
                          Metacreator writes out loads properly. I can send you the changed file
                          off-list if you feel uncomfortable editing the include file yourself.

                          On 2/7/13 2:53 PM, xyzzy wrote:
                          > I bought the version of MC that was sold as Gurps Character Builder
                          > years ago, and began successfully using it (also years ago) with MC (so
                          > I'd have just one installation). Recently, I created a character with
                          > 'Claws' and I noticed that two of the forms of this advantage did not
                          > appear. Instead, what looked like a formula appeared.
                          >
                        • xyzzy
                          ... First, let me thank you for the extremely fast response. It s appreciated. Second, I made this change, fixing about three adj occurrences and one
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 9, 2013
                            On 2/8/2013 12:07 PM, Support wrote:
                             

                            I've found the source of the problem: the GURPS.inc file made
                            assumptions about how macro arguments are referenced that were no longer
                            true when tab-delimited files were introduced, and not all the
                            references were fixed when tab-delimited files were implemented...

                            First, let me thank you for the extremely fast response. It's appreciated.

                            Second, I made this change, fixing about three 'adj' occurrences and one 'checkexp' occurrence, and was able to edit GURPSCompendium.cds and save it from within MC fine. The original problem with GURPSCompendium.cds was still there, but this time when I moved the total cost expressions from the 'sformat' field to the 'tc' field it fixed the original problem and the saved file worked great!

                            Thanks for the help!
                          • tooley1chris
                            Okay. I just read thru BRP and I was cursing out loud (and laughing quite a bit) They do almost the same mechanics as I was writing up. Some of it is exactly
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 9, 2013
                              Okay. I just read thru BRP and I was cursing out loud (and laughing quite a bit) They do almost the same mechanics as I was writing up. Some of it is exactly the same. I've NEVER played this system so I had several WTF? Moments. LOL. Anyway, yes, this is what I needed. Thank you all very much.

                              --- In cw@yahoogroups.com, "tooley1chris" wrote:
                              >
                              > I've been making a skill based (instead of XP) RPG system for a while now and was wondering if metacreator is a good choice for incorporating into a character creator.
                              > Has anyone familiar with this product tried/seen such a thing?
                              > The game is similar mechanically to say Morrowind series. Raising skills raises levels but no real classes.
                              >
                            • Steve S.
                              ... Look on the bright side... you have (apparently independently!) invented what is one of the most-highly-regarded RPG engines, ever... :-) You are
                              Message 14 of 16 , Feb 9, 2013
                                On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:26 PM, tooley1chris <christooley69@...> wrote:

                                > Okay. I just read thru BRP and I was cursing out loud (and laughing quite
                                > a bit) They do almost the same mechanics as I was writing up. Some of it is
                                > exactly the same. I've NEVER played this system so I had several WTF?
                                > Moments. LOL. Anyway, yes, this is what I needed. Thank you all very much.

                                Look on the bright side... you have (apparently independently!) invented what is
                                one of the most-highly-regarded RPG engines, ever... :-) You are obviously a
                                genius, a gaming wunderkind!

                                In addition to the short BRP "Quickstart Edition" freebie from Chaosium, there
                                are a couple of longer "SRD" style (free) documents out there. Mongoose RQ1
                                can be had, and OpenQuest. "Renaissance" by Cakebread&Walton has an
                                SRD version...each a slightly-tweaked rendition of the BRP rules, all of them of
                                course more elaborate than the "Quickstart" (which is what I assume you have
                                just been checking) although none as elaborate as the "Big Gold Book" from
                                Chaosium.

                                Anyhow, it's clear that Metacreator would be able to support your system...
                                seeing that it already DOES.... ;^]


                                --
                                "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of
                                childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -CS Lewis
                              • tooley1chris
                                Wunderkind, huh? Maybe I should ask for a job. LOL. I just bought the Big Gold Book and am flipping through it. Might have to change some things, some house
                                Message 15 of 16 , Feb 10, 2013
                                  Wunderkind, huh? Maybe I should ask for a job. LOL.
                                  I just bought the Big Gold Book and am flipping through it. Might have to change some things, some house rules I think I'll like better, but yeah. This is good stuff. Played alot of systems over the years. Putting the best of all those into one was a desire of mine. Seems I've still missed out on some other genius beating me to the punch. ;)

                                  --- In cw@yahoogroups.com, "Steve S." wrote:
                                  >
                                  > On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:26 PM, tooley1chris wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Okay. I just read thru BRP and I was cursing out loud (and laughing quite
                                  > > a bit) They do almost the same mechanics as I was writing up. Some of it is
                                  > > exactly the same. I've NEVER played this system so I had several WTF?
                                  > > Moments. LOL. Anyway, yes, this is what I needed. Thank you all very much.
                                  >
                                  > Look on the bright side... you have (apparently independently!) invented what is
                                  > one of the most-highly-regarded RPG engines, ever... :-) You are obviously a
                                  > genius, a gaming wunderkind!
                                  >
                                  > In addition to the short BRP "Quickstart Edition" freebie from Chaosium, there
                                  > are a couple of longer "SRD" style (free) documents out there. Mongoose RQ1
                                  > can be had, and OpenQuest. "Renaissance" by Cakebread&Walton has an
                                  > SRD version...each a slightly-tweaked rendition of the BRP rules, all of them of
                                  > course more elaborate than the "Quickstart" (which is what I assume you have
                                  > just been checking) although none as elaborate as the "Big Gold Book" from
                                  > Chaosium.
                                  >
                                  > Anyhow, it's clear that Metacreator would be able to support your system...
                                  > seeing that it already DOES.... ;^]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of
                                  > childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -CS Lewis
                                  >
                                • tooley1chris
                                  Okay. Now that I m very familiar with BRP, Im wondering if I need to make my own database for meta-BRP or has this already been done as well?
                                  Message 16 of 16 , May 6, 2013
                                    Okay. Now that I'm very familiar with BRP, Im wondering if I need to make my own database for meta-BRP or has this already been done as well?
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