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[XTalk] Re: Chronology of Jesus & Paul

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  • Bernard Muller
    BobSchacht@aol.com wrote: Hanz Dieter Betz, in his article on Paul for the Anchor Bible Dictionary, constructs a surprising (to me) chronology of Paul s
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 4 9:22 PM
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      BobSchacht@... wrote:
      >
      > Hanz Dieter Betz, in his article on Paul for the Anchor Bible Dictionary,
      > constructs a surprising (to me) chronology of Paul's work that has
      > confounding implications for historical Jesus dating.
      >
      > In trying to date the "so-called" apostolic conference described in Galatians
      > 2:1-10, he notes that it presumes that Peter is still in Jerusalem,

      Sure, he was still there.

      > thus putting it before his departure as reported in Acts 12:17.

      I do not see any connection with Ac12:17 which is set around 42. Even in
      Acts, the apostolic conference happens well after that (Ac15).


      Galatians 2:1-10
      > also implies James & John, sons of Zebedee, were still alive, identifying the
      > John in verse 9 as John bar Zebedee.

      The "James" in Gal2:9 is obviously Jesus' brother.
      Acts reports that James, the brother of John, had been executed (around
      42) well before the "conference".

      <SNIP>

      According to my research (at least here, everything fits snugly), and
      it's all extensively documented in my web site,
      here are the dates:

      > 1. Jesus' crucifixion

      28 (shoking you would say)

      > 2. Paul's conversion

      35 in Damascus

      > 3. The first(?) "apostolic conference" described in Gal. 1:18 with
      > Peter and James "the Lord's brother"

      38 (conference is a big word for that 15 days stay with Peter and the
      visit of James)


      > 4. The second(?) apostolic conference described in Gal. 2:1-10?

      "Luke" intentionnaly misplaced it in times. This one occurred between
      Paul's 2nd and 3rd journey in 52.

      Some remarks: many parts of my site deal with dating. But Appendices A
      and B, with my page on Paul's third journey, are the ones which address
      the most directly the dating you inquired about. The sequence of events
      of my main pages (HJ-1 to 3) is also a part of the dating process.

      Bernard
      http://www.concentric.net/~Mullerb/

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    • Jeffrey B. Gibson
      BobSchacht@aol.com wrote:Hanz Dieter Betz, in his article on Paul for the Anchor Bible Dictionary, constructs a surprising (to me) chronology of Paul s
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 5 7:10 AM
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        BobSchacht@... wrote:

        > Hanz Dieter Betz, in his article on Paul for the Anchor Bible Dictionary,
        > constructs a surprising (to me) chronology of Paul's work that has
        > confounding implications for historical Jesus dating.
        >
        > In trying to date the "so-called" apostolic conference described in Galatians
        > 2:1-10, he notes that it presumes that Peter is still in Jerusalem, thus
        > putting it before his departure as reported in Acts 12:17. Galatians 2:1-10
        > also implies James & John, sons of Zebedee, were still alive, identifying the
        > John in verse 9 as John bar Zebedee. If his brother James was assassinated by
        > Herod Agrippa I as described in Acts 12:2, etc., then the Galatians 2
        > apostolic conference must have happened before the death of Herod Agrippa in
        > 44 C.E.
        >
        > Given that datum, we then have the testimony in Gal. 1:18 - 2:1 that the
        > conference occurred 14+3 years after his conversion, which would put his
        > conversion at about 28 C.E. (citing Vielhauer 1975)! Since most estimates of
        > Jesus' crucifixion place it about 33 C.E., something is obviously wrong here.
        > I am surprised that this piece survived the editorial process at ABD, but
        > since it did, Betz's reconstruction must not be totally goofball.
        >
        > What are the best dates for
        > 1. Jesus' crucifixion
        > 2. Paul's conversion
        > 3. The first(?) "apostolic conference" described in Gal. 1:18 with Peter and
        > James "the Lord's brother"
        > 4. The second(?) apostolic conference described in Gal. 2:1-10?
        >
        > Bob
        > nau.edu
        >

        Though there are may good discussions of Paul's chronology (have a look at
        Morphy-O'Connor's [_Paul: A Critical Life_] and Jewett's, the latter being
        influenced
        by Knox's _Chapter's in a Life of Paul_), I would suggest that you have a look at
        the
        discussion of this and the other matters you raise in George Caird's article
        "Chronology, New Testament" in The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible. This
        has the
        advantage of setting out the various possibilities for the dates you want
        information
        on, and then discussing the pros and cons of each.

        Yours,

        Jeffrey
        --
        Jeffrey B. Gibson
        7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
        Chicago, Illinois 60626
        e-mail jgibson000@...



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