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RE: [XTalk] Re: Jesus' "megalomania" (Loren,2)

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  • Barlow, James C. DOC
    Precisely.. And if the paradosis allowed for this kind of transformation of the man upwards and onwards without let or hindrance, could that have not only been
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 31, 2001
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      Precisely.. And if the paradosis allowed for this kind of transformation of
      the man upwards and onwards without let or hindrance, could that have not
      only been initially achieved either (a.) by acknowledging HJ's own
      megalomaniacal conclusions or (b.)gruesomely inverting his wisdom teaching
      about the Kingdom entirely? And since it is not likely his wisdom teaching
      (Matt.6;Q) will have been utterly subverted after he became a bona fide
      'voice of God' by those who first called him 'lord,' is not the
      megalomaniacal hypothesis all the more weighty? Let us reflect...
      -jb

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Kevin Anderson [mailto:forks@...]
      Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 10:23 AM
      To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [XTalk] Re: Jesus' "megalomania" (Loren,2)


      MGrondin wrote:
      "...if he believed himself to be a Danielic "Son of Man", sent
      from God to bring about a complete and eternal change in the world
      order and judge all men, etc., we're starting to get into the area
      of megalomania. And if, in addition, Jesus believed himself to be
      the one and only "son of God" - the only person who ever had or
      could have personal knowledge of "the Father" - then we're all the
      way there."

      Unless, of course, he really, truly was (is) all of those things. Then it
      would be the sign of a very integrated psyche.

      Respectfully,
      Kevin Anderson
      forks@...



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <mgrondin@...>
      To: <crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:18 PM
      Subject: [XTalk] Re: Jesus' "megalomania" (Loren,2)


      > --- Loren Rosson wrote:
      > > You're confusing a few things in your own citation.
      > > There is a difference between publicly acknowledging
      > > and accepting one's role as messiah and privately
      > > believing oneself to be the messiah.
      >
      > No, I made that distinction in discussing the possibility that J
      > might have accepted the title, but yet been unsure whether he was
      > the right one to fill it.
      >
      > > Now, let's assume for the sake of argument that Jesus
      > > not only publicly accepted his role as the messiah,
      > > but that he also really believed himself to be such.
      > > Is this necessarily "megalomania"? Why would you
      > > assume that this constituted believing himself to be
      > > "bigger and better than he actually was"? A
      > > charismatic who performed successful faith-healings
      > > and empowered the Jewish people with parables and
      > > other teachings was a bit "bigger and better" than
      > > most. No?
      >
      > Sure, but "better than most" ain't the same as "better than he
      > actually was". Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't "the Messiah"
      > (assuming only one, rather than the double-messiah idea) have had
      > to have been, among other things, king of Israel & Judah? How could
      > a wandering charismatic and faith-healer - even if he was of the
      > House of David - hope to achieve that goal? Well, perhaps with a
      > little help from God and his friends? (After all, didn't David
      > himself rise from obscurity?) Okay, I'll say this: if Jesus had
      > grandiose religio-political ambitions - maybe even a plan for
      > achieving those ambitions - that wouldn't have been megalomania,
      > though it might be classified as delusions of grandeur. On the other
      > hand, if he believed himself to be a Danielic "Son of Man", sent
      > from God to bring about a complete and eternal change in the world
      > order and judge all men, etc., we're starting to get into the area
      > of megalomania. And if, in addition, Jesus believed himself to be
      > the one and only "son of God" - the only person who ever had or
      > could have personal knowledge of "the Father" - then we're all the
      > way there.
      >
      > Mike
      >
      >
      >
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