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[XTalk] Re: Translation from Greek

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  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
    Bernard Muller wrote:Bernard writes: Dear Xtalk Greek scholars: In Josephus Wars, II, VIII, 4, (Wm. Whiston s translation) They have no certain
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 4 3:16 PM
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      Bernard Muller wrote:

      > Bernard writes:
      > Dear Xtalk Greek scholars:
      > In Josephus' Wars, II, VIII, 4, (Wm. Whiston's translation) "They have
      > no certain city, but many of them dwell in every city"
      > This looks very awkward.
      > What would be a more literal translation?
      > Are both "city" accuratly translated from the Greek word?
      > Can the Greek word(s) used here for "city" be also translated as
      > "place", "town" or "village"?
      >
      > Farther in the same passage, we have:
      > "... there is, in every city where they live, one appointed ..."
      > Again, is "city" here the correct translation?
      > Can the Greek here for "city" be translated as "place", "town" or
      > "village"?
      >

      Bernard,

      You might wish to be aware that the Perseus sire (www,perseus.tufts.edu) has
      an online edition of both the Greek and the English (Loeb) text of Josephus.
      More importantly for your question, these texts are morphologically linked, so
      that from the English text you can easily discover what its Greek exemplar
      is, and from the Greek one can have any given word parsed and defined.

      Yours,

      Jeffrey


      --
      Jeffrey B. Gibson
      7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
      Chicago, Illinois 60626
      e-mail jgibson000@...



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    • William Arnal
      At 02:08 PM 7/4/99 -0600, Bernard writes:In Josephus Wars, II, VIII, 4, (Wm. Whiston s translation) They have no certain city, but many of them dwell in
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 4 4:05 PM
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        At 02:08 PM 7/4/99 -0600, Bernard writes:

        >In Josephus' Wars, II, VIII, 4, (Wm. Whiston's translation) "They have
        >no certain city, but many of them dwell in every city"
        >This looks very awkward.
        >What would be a more literal translation?

        Literally, something like: There is no one city of theirs, but in each many
        dwell.

        >Are both "city" accuratly translated from the Greek word?

        Yes. Well, actually, city only shows up here once -- the second occurance is
        your translator filling in (correctly) the referent for "each." But the word
        used here for city (and to which "each" refers back) is in fact "polis" -- city.

        >Can the Greek word(s) used here for "city" be also translated as
        >"place", "town" or "village"?

        Not really -- there are perfectly good words for at least place and village
        -- probably for town too, though one doesn't occur to me immediately. So I
        would translate polis as "city" pretty consistently. But on the other hand,
        Josephus does NOT use this term technically, accurately, or consistently.
        For instance, in _Life_ he refers to the "204 cities and villages" of
        Galilee. I SUPPOSE we could interpret this as referring to TWO cities and
        200 villages, but to me it seems like evidence for a sloppy use of
        terminology. So in the above passage, while I'd choose to translate it as
        "city," there's no reason to restrict the "cities" in question to very large
        urban centers.

        >Farther in the same passage, we have:
        >"... there is, in every city where they live, one appointed ..."
        >Again, is "city" here the correct translation?

        Yes, with the same qualifications as above.

        >Can the Greek here for "city" be translated as "place", "town" or
        >"village"?

        Not really, but de facto, I think "towns" are being referred to here just
        just as much as "cities."

        Bill
        __________________________________
        William Arnal wea1@...
        Religion/Classics check out my web page, at:
        New York University http://pages.nyu.edu/~wea1/


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      • Bernard Muller
        William Arnal wrote:-- probably for town too, though one doesn t occur to me immediately.First, thank you for your help, William. I am very
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 4 6:34 PM
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          William Arnal wrote:
          >

          > -- probably for town too, though one doesn't occur to me immediately.

          First, thank you for your help, William. I am very appreciative.
          About town(s), in Wars, Josephus seems to use it only once (according to
          the Whiston's translation). That's in Book I, Ch II, Section 6:
          "So he took Medaba and Samea, with the towns in their neighborhood, as
          also Shechem".
          I wonder what is the Greek word used here for "towns". Would he be
          "polis" or the Greek for "villages", or a special Greek word for
          "towns"?
          Thanks again
          Bernard
          http://www.concentric.net/~Mullerb/

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        • Bernard Muller
          Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote: You might wish to be aware that the Perseus sire (www.perseus.tufts.edu) has an online edition of both the Greek and the
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 4 6:38 PM
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            Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:
            >

            >
            > You might wish to be aware that the Perseus sire (www.perseus.tufts.edu) has
            > an online edition of both the Greek and the English (Loeb) text of Josephus.
            > More importantly for your question, these texts are morphologically linked, so
            > that from the English text you can easily discover what its Greek exemplar
            > is, and from the Greek one can have any given word parsed and defined.

            Thank you, Jeffrey, and I looked at the site you specified. But the only
            translation they have is Whiston's not Loeb's. I thought I let you know.
            Bernard
            http://www.concentric.net/~Mullerb/

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          • William Arnal
            At 07:34 PM 7/4/99 -0600, you wrote:About town(s), in Wars, Josephus seems to use it only once (according to the Whiston s translation). That s in Book I,
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 4 6:42 PM
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              At 07:34 PM 7/4/99 -0600, you wrote:

              >About town(s), in Wars, Josephus seems to use it only once (according to
              >the Whiston's translation). That's in Book I, Ch II, Section 6:
              >"So he took Medaba and Samea, with the towns in their neighborhood, as
              >also Shechem".
              >I wonder what is the Greek word used here for "towns". Would he be
              >"polis" or the Greek for "villages", or a special Greek word for
              >"towns"?

              Hilariously, no word at all -- again, the translator has (in my view quite
              properly) supplied the word on the basis of the sense of what Josephus has
              said here -- more or less literally, the text says: "So he took Medaba and
              Samea, along with those neighbouring"

              Bill
              __________________________________
              William Arnal wea1@...
              Religion/Classics check out my web page, at:
              New York University http://pages.nyu.edu/~wea1/


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