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[XTalk] Re: Re:Jubilee

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  • Liz Fried
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    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 2, 1999
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      > From: Bernard Muller

      >
      > Liz Fried wrote:

      >
      > Liz, you must be talking about Jewish years from March to March.
      I'm talking about Jewish years, September to September.

      What
      > would be the Sabbatical year, 33-34 or 34-35?
      Assuming CE, the sabbatical year would be fall 33 to fall 34.



      >
      > What would be the preceding Sabbatical year and, let's say, the next
      > three ones? What would be the next Jubilee year?
      I remember writing these all down, year by year, and counting them out.
      I'll let someone else do it now.

      > >
      > > We don't need to count Sabbatical years in Jesus' time from the
      > jubilees of
      > > the monarchal period. We have the sabbatical years of
      > Maccabees. We need to
      > > count from then.
      >
      > What are your references on sabbatical years in Maccabees? Do you have
      > references in Maccabees of Jubilee years too? Where?
      This was worked out nicely by Lester Grabbe, in JBL about 5 years ago I
      think.
      If I have time I'll try to get out the article and see what his dates are.

      Best,

      Liz

      Lisbeth S. Fried
      Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
      New York University
      51 Washington Sq. S.
      New York, NY 10012
      lqf9256@...
      lizfried@...


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    • Basil Lourie
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      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 2, 1999
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        > I was under the impression that the Jubilee year is the 50th year
        > (i.e., the
        > year after the seventh sabbatical year), and hence occurs every
        > 49 years.
        I don't understand this statement. It is the 50th year. The counting begins
        the year after the Jubilee year. That is year one. Seven periods of seven
        make 49 years after the last Jubilee year. The next year is the 50th year
        after the last Jubilee year. The 50th year is not counted in the cycle.
        There are 49 years between every jubilee year.


        The situation may be even worse: *both* countings are possible. I would like
        to know more precisely about the source re: each kind of procedure. In the
        Temple Scroll and some other sources (incl. Christian Ethiopic ones) there
        is certainly a procedure of counting of "Jubilees" of Sabbaths where every
        50th Sabbath is counted twice, that is, there is no Sabbath (week) which is
        not counted in the cycle. This counting of weeks must be (I think, without
        assurance) of the same mode as that of years in the respective communities.
        Beckwith ("The Year of Messiah") is pressuposing 49-year Jubilees in the Bk
        of Jubilees. Dealing with some early Christian calendars I found also 50-day
        "Jubilee of weeks" sometimes likely. However, I have never seen a special
        study on the different possibilities in counting of Jubilees.

        Basil Lourie
        revue _Xristianskij Vostok_
        St. Petersburg, Russia


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      • dhindley@compuserve.com
        Basil Lourie wrote:I was under the impression that the Jubilee year is the 50th year (i.e., the year after the seventh sabbatical year), and
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 2, 1999
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          Basil Lourie wrote:

          > > I was under the impression that the Jubilee year is the 50th year
          > > (i.e., the
          > > year after the seventh sabbatical year), and hence occurs every
          > > 49 years.
          >
          > I don't understand this statement. It is the 50th year. The counting begins
          > the year after the Jubilee year. That is year one. Seven periods of seven
          > make 49 years after the last Jubilee year. The next year is the 50th year
          > after the last Jubilee year. The 50th year is not counted in the cycle.
          > There are 49 years between every jubilee year.
          >
          >
          > The situation may be even worse: *both* countings are possible. I would like
          > to know more precisely about the source re: each kind of procedure. In the
          > Temple Scroll and some other sources (incl. Christian Ethiopic ones) there
          > is certainly a procedure of counting of "Jubilees" of Sabbaths where every
          > 50th Sabbath is counted twice, that is, there is no Sabbath (week) which is
          > not counted in the cycle. This counting of weeks must be (I think, without
          > assurance) of the same mode as that of years in the respective communities.
          > Beckwith ("The Year of Messiah") is pressuposing 49-year Jubilees in the Bk
          > of Jubilees. Dealing with some early Christian calendars I found also 50-day
          > "Jubilee of weeks" sometimes likely. However, I have never seen a special
          > study on the different possibilities in counting of Jubilees.

          Archbishop Ussher thought that they marked 50 year periods. The Book of Jubilees (at least in the Ethiopic rescension and probably in the DSS) thinks of them as 49 year periods, and has little to say about the 50th year.

          The way I understand it is as follows:

          01,02,03,...48,49,50
          01,02,03,...48,49,50
          01,02,03, etc.

          This means each jubilee year is celebrated in the first year of the next jubilee.

          RSV Leviticus 25:8 "And you shall count
          seven weeks of years, seven times seven
          years, so that the time of the seven
          weeks of years shall be to you forty-nine
          years. 9 Then you shall send abroad the
          loud trumpet on the tenth day of the
          seventh month; on the day of atonement
          you shall send abroad the trumpet
          throughout all your land. 10 And you shall
          hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim
          liberty throughout the land to all its
          inhabitants; it shall be a jubilee for you,
          when each of you shall return to his
          property and each of you shall return to
          his family. 11 A jubilee shall that fiftieth
          year be to you; in it you shall neither
          sow, nor reap what grows of itself, nor
          gather the grapes from the undressed
          vines. 12 For it is a jubilee; it shall be
          holy to you; you shall eat what it yields
          out of the field. 13 "In this year of jubilee
          each of you shall return to his property.
          14 And if you sell to your neighbor or buy
          from your neighbor, you shall not wrong
          one another. 15 According to the number
          of years after the jubilee, you shall buy
          from your neighbor, and according to the
          number of years for crops he shall sell to
          you. 16 If the years are many you shall
          increase the price, and if the years are
          few you shall diminish the price, for it is
          the number of the crops that he is selling
          to you. 17 You shall not wrong one
          another, but you shall fear your God; for I
          am the LORD your God.

          RSV Leviticus 25:23 The land shall not be
          sold in perpetuity, for the land is mine; for
          you are strangers and sojourners with
          me. 24 And in all the country you
          possess, you shall grant a redemption of
          the land. 25 "If your brother becomes
          poor, and sells part of his property, then
          his next of kin shall come and redeem
          what his brother has sold. 26 If a man
          has no one to redeem it, and then himself
          becomes prosperous and finds sufficient
          means to redeem it, 27 let him reckon
          the years since he sold it and pay back
          the overpayment to the man to whom he
          sold it; and he shall return to his property.
          28 But if he has not sufficient means to
          get it back for himself, then what he sold
          shall remain in the hand of him who
          bought it until the year of jubilee; in the
          jubilee it shall be released, and he shall
          return to his property. 29 "If a man sells a
          dwelling house in a walled city, he may
          redeem it within a whole year after its
          sale; for a full year he shall have the right
          of redemption. 30 If it is not redeemed
          within a full year, then the house that is in
          the walled city shall be made sure in
          perpetuity to him who bought it,
          throughout his generations; it shall not be
          released in the jubilee. 31 But the houses
          of the villages which have no wall around
          them shall be reckoned with the fields of
          the country; they may be redeemed, and
          they shall be released in the jubilee. 32
          Nevertheless the cities of the Levites, the
          houses in the cities of their possession,
          the Levites may redeem at any time. 33
          And if one of the Levites does not
          exercise his right of redemption, then the
          house that was sold in a city of their
          possession shall be released in the
          jubilee; for the houses in the cities of the
          Levites are their possession among the
          people of Israel. 34 But the fields of
          common land belonging to their cities
          may not be sold; for that is their perpetual
          possession.

          RSV Leviticus 25:40 he shall be with you
          as a hired servant and as a sojourner. He
          shall serve with you until the year of the
          jubilee; 41 then he shall go out from you,
          he and his children with him, and go back
          to his own family, and return to the
          possession of his fathers. 42 For they are
          my servants, whom I brought forth out of
          the land of Egypt; they shall not be sold
          as slaves.

          RSV Leviticus 25:47 "If a stranger or
          sojourner with you becomes rich, and
          your brother beside him becomes poor
          and sells himself to the stranger or
          sojourner with you, or to a member of the
          stranger's family, 48 then after he is sold
          he may be redeemed; one of his brothers
          may redeem him, 49 or his uncle, or his
          cousin may redeem him, or a near
          kinsman belonging to his family may
          redeem him; or if he grows rich he may
          redeem himself. 50 He shall reckon with
          him who bought him from the year when
          he sold himself to him until the year of
          jubilee, and the price of his release shall
          be according to the number of years; the
          time he was with his owner shall be rated
          as the time of a hired servant. 51 If there
          are still many years, according to them
          he shall refund out of the price paid for
          him the price for his redemption. 52 If
          there remain but a few years until the
          year of jubilee, he shall make a reckoning
          with him; according to the years of
          service due from him he shall refund the
          money for his redemption. 53 As a
          servant hired year by year shall he be
          with him; he shall not rule with harshness
          over him in your sight. 54 And if he is not
          redeemed by these means, then he shall
          be released in the year of jubilee, he and
          his children with him. 55 For to me the
          people of Israel are servants, they are my
          servants whom I brought forth out of the
          land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

          Regards,

          Dave Hindley
          Cleveland, OH


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        • Liz Fried
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          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 3, 1999
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            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: dhindley@...


            > The way I understand it is as follows:
            >
            > 01,02,03,...48,49,50
            > 01,02,03,...48,49,50
            > 01,02,03, etc.
            >
            > This means each jubilee year is celebrated in the first year of
            > the next jubilee.
            At least the way it appears above, that's not the way you've drawn it.
            I think that the book of Juiblees assumed a 49 year cycle. I think that
            somewhere near the end of the Persian period the Jubilee was dropped as a
            second fallow year. I think in Jubilees the seventh sabbatical year is the
            Jubilee year. I figured out that the sabbatical years in Maccabees only
            made sense if you assume the Jubilee year was dropped near the end of the
            Persian period. If you assume that, then the sabbatical years in Maccabees
            fit in with the sabbatical and juiblee years I had determined for the
            Monarchic period.

            >
            > RSV Leviticus 25:8 "And you shall count
            > seven weeks of years, seven times seven
            > years, so that the time of the seven
            > weeks of years shall be to you forty-nine
            > years.
            That is, forty-nine complete years.

            9 Then
            *after* the completion of the 49th year.

            you shall send abroad the
            > loud trumpet on the tenth day of the
            > seventh month; on the day of atonement
            > you shall send abroad the trumpet
            > throughout all your land.
            Although it says the seventh month to conform to
            the Babylonian calendar,
            the Jewish New Year was in the fall, the first day of the 7th
            month was the first day of the year.
            The 10th day of the seventh month signalled the
            end of the New Year's festivities, and the beginning of the next year.


            10 And you shall
            > hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim
            > liberty throughout the land to all its
            > inhabitants;
            This is proclaimed at the *beginning* of the 50th year.

            it shall be a jubilee for you,
            > when each of you shall return to his
            > property and each of you shall return to
            > his family.
            Complete manumission of all the slaves,
            no matter how long each has worked for you.

            11 A jubilee shall that fiftieth
            > year be to you; in it you shall neither
            > sow, nor reap what grows of itself, nor
            > gather the grapes from the undressed
            > vines. 12 For it is a jubilee; it shall be
            > holy to you; you shall eat what it yields
            > out of the field. 13 "In this year of jubilee
            > each of you shall return to his property.

            Everyone returns to the status quo ante.
            >
            Liz
            Lisbeth S. Fried
            Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
            New York University
            51 Washington Sq. S.
            New York, NY 10012
            lqf9256@...
            lizfried@...


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          • Michael T. MacDonell
            Dear All:Is there a searchable archive up and running? If so, does it include the old Crosstalk postings? If not, how can they be accessed.Sorry to be
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 4, 1999
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              Dear All:

              Is there a searchable archive up and running? If so, does it include the
              old Crosstalk postings? If not, how can they be accessed.

              Sorry to be dense, this has probably been discussed already.

              Best Regards,
              Mike MacDonell
              ____________________________


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