Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Jews and Patriarchs

Expand Messages
  • Bob Schacht
    ... Now, to be sure, Anderson and Stark are referring to the hoi polloi, not the Fathers. Nevertheless, it seems to me like you have turned significant border
    Message 1 of 30 , Feb 20, 2001
      At 04:26 PM 2/20/01 +0100, Karel Hanhart wrote:

      >...The problem with the evidence from the Fathers is the fact that they
      >were not Jews. By then the fall of Jerusalem was approached in an
      >anti-judaic manner, as punishment by God. To John Mark and his Judean
      >readers. The Roman conquest and the destruction of the temple was a
      >disaster that had come over them as over all Judeans that cried out for a
      >theodice. The open tomb ending was Mark's answer. To the Fathers the
      >destruction of the temple did not touch them existentially. To them it was
      >'simply' a divine
      >confirmation of their christology and ecclesiology, which was denied in
      >the synagogue. The anti-judaism of the Church Fathers has come to the fore
      >in many publications and need not be repeated here. ...

      Well, I'm not so sure. Richard Anderson wrote on another list:

      >In my paper Rodney Stark and the Ending of Acts, available on my web page,
      >I stated:
      >Rodney Stark, using his solid background in the sociology of religion, has
      >shown that the mission to the Jews probably succeeded.(3) Furthermore, the
      >principle of cultural continuity and the principle that 'Social movement
      >grow much faster when they spread through social network'(4) does provide a
      >partial explanation for the explosive growth of Christianity. The network
      >growth rate exhibited by Christianity has been confirmed by the Mormon
      >example.(5) Stark has shown that 'Christianity offered twice as much
      >cultural continuity to the Hellenized Jews as to Gentiles.'(6) Stark stated,
      >and his conclusion is well documented, 'that not only was it the Jews of the
      >diaspora who provided the initial basis for the church growth during the
      >first and early second centuries, but that Jews continued as a significant
      >source of Christian converts until at least as late as the fourth century
      >and that Jewish Christianity was still significant in the fifth century.'(7)
      >fn3: Rodney Stark, The Rise of Christianity, (Princeton 1996), 49-71.
      >fn4: Stark, 55.
      >fn5: Stark, 18, 56.
      >fn6: Stark, 59.
      >fn6: Stark, 49.
      >Daniel Boyarin, Dying for God said that there were significant intercultural
      >border crossings between Christianity and Judaism up until the 5th century
      >essentially agreeing with Rodney Stark without mentioning him and using
      >different data.
      >However, I think you would need to read Danielou, The Theology of Jewish
      >Christianity, and other works on Jewish Christianity to obtain answers to
      >some of your specific questions....
      >Richard H. Anderson
      >Wallingford PA

      Now, to be sure, Anderson and Stark are referring to the hoi polloi, not
      the Fathers. Nevertheless, it seems to me like you have turned "significant
      border crossings" into a chasm, and have thereby have perhaps exaggerated
      the differences.

      Robert M. Schacht, Ph.D.
      Northern Arizona University
      Flagstaff, AZ

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.