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Re: [XTalk] Altered States

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  • Robert M. Schacht
    ... rather different than the resurrection ... ================================== I think you might want to take a look at Stevan Davies Jesus the Healer if
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 24, 2000
      At 03:16 PM 12/23/00 , you wrote:
      >At 2:18 PM on December 23, 200 David Barr wrote:

      >> But of course this experience [John's experience in Revelation] is
      rather different than the resurrection
      >> appearance claims of the gospels, which are presented as experiences in
      >> normal states of consciousness rather than altered states. But I also
      >> suspect that these differentiations are much clearer to us than they were to
      >> the early storytellers.

      >This is the point I wanted to raise. John of Patmos' encounter with the
      >risen Jesus in Revelation is very different from the appearance claims in
      >the gospels and Acts. But, as Brian McCarthy implied at the beginning of
      >this thread (12:42 AM 12/21/2000), those are not first-hand accounts. Might
      >not the appearances of the risen Jesus referred to (but not detailed) by
      >Paul be more like those of Revelation than like those of the gospels and

      >I think David Barr is correct in saying that the difference between
      >experiences in normal and altered states may not always have been clear to
      >the early Christians. As Paul said (speaking of himself, according to most
      >but not all commentators):

      >"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I
      >cannot tell, or whether out of the body I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How
      >that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words which it is
      >not lawful for a man to utter" (2 Cor. 12.2-4).

      >To restate my question: Did the resurrection appearances described by Paul
      >(most famously in 1 Cor. 15.5-8) necessarily take place in a "normal" state
      >of consciousness? Or might we legitimately hold that they were visionary
      >experiences like those of John of Patmos ?

      I think you might want to take a look at Stevan Davies' Jesus the Healer if
      you're interested in this line of inquiry.

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