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Re: Friends of Caesar

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  • RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Russ Conte wrote:
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 1 1:37 PM
      Russ Conte wrote:

      <<The "friend of Caesar" is absolutely historical, check out Suetonius,
      Tiberius, xlvi. For want of a better way to say it, there really was a
      "friend of Caesar" club. When the crowd threatened Pilate by going over
      his head to Caesar, Pilate caved in. Quite a number of other details are
      in the trial, for those who read the accounts closely and are familiar
      with Roman history of the first century.>>

      Quite right, I believe Herod the Great was a member (some
      recommendation!). Was Pilate? I don't have a copy of Suetonius to hand, but I
      seem to remember that Pilate was appointed by Sejanus, not personally by
      Claudius. Or maybe my memory is playing tricks.

      Regards,

      Robert Brenchley

      RSBrenchley@...
    • RSBrenchley@aol.com
      Russ Conte wrote:
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 1 1:39 PM
        Russ Conte wrote:

        <<<<The "friend of Caesar" is absolutely historical, check out Suetonius,
        Tiberius, xlvi. For want of a better way to say it, there really was a
        "friend of Caesar" club. When the crowd threatened Pilate by going over
        his head to Caesar, Pilate caved in. Quite a number of other details are
        in the trial, for those who read the accounts closely and are familiar
        with Roman history of the first century.>>

        Quite right, I believe Herod the Great was a member (some
        recommendation!). Was Pilate? I don't have a copy of Suetonius to hand, but I
        seem to remember that Pilate was appointed by Sejanus, not personally by
        Claudius. Or maybe my memory is playing tricks.>>

        Sorry, I meant Tiberius.

        Regards,

        Robert Brenchley

        RSBrenchley@...
      • David C. Hindley
        ... of Caesar club] (some recommendation!). Was Pilate? I don t have a copy of Suetonius to hand, but I seem to remember that Pilate was appointed by Sejanus,
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 1 2:23 PM
          Robert Brenchley said:

          >>Quite right, I believe Herod the Great was a member [of the "Friends
          of Caesar" club] (some recommendation!). Was Pilate? I don't have a
          copy of Suetonius to hand, but I seem to remember that Pilate was
          appointed by Sejanus, not personally by [Tiberius]. Or maybe my memory
          is playing tricks.>>

          He was so appointed, but as an Equestrian rank governor over a
          third-rate province, I doubt he was ever publicly assigned such an
          honor. If I am not mistaken, was not the title "friend of Caesar"
          something to be assigned to client kings and princes in the buffer
          states, and not to individual Romans? It would sort of be like
          "Favored Nation Status" for a nation that does business with the USA.
          What the author of the Gospel of John meant by this kind of phrase was
          anyone's guess, but I would think it was intended to have a sense sort
          of like Caesar's mythical speech "friends, Romans, countrymen..."

          Regards,

          Dave Hindley
          Cleveland, Ohio, USA
        • Lorna Wilson
          Robert, Dave, See Raymond Brown s commentary on 4G for explanation of phrase friend of Caesar. Lorna Wilson ...
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 1 3:41 PM
            Robert,
            Dave,

            See Raymond Brown's commentary on 4G for explanation of phrase "friend of
            Caesar."

            Lorna Wilson

            >
            >Robert Brenchley said:
            >
            > >>Quite right, I believe Herod the Great was a member [of the "Friends
            >of Caesar" club] (some recommendation!). Was Pilate? I don't have a
            >copy of Suetonius to hand, but I seem to remember that Pilate was
            >appointed by Sejanus, not personally by [Tiberius]. Or maybe my memory
            >is playing tricks.>>
            >
            Dave Hindley said:

            >He was so appointed, but as an Equestrian rank governor over a
            >third-rate province, I doubt he was ever publicly assigned such an
            >honor. If I am not mistaken, was not the title "friend of Caesar"
            >something to be assigned to client kings and princes in the buffer
            >states, and not to individual Romans? It would sort of be like
            >"Favored Nation Status" for a nation that does business with the USA.
            >What the author of the Gospel of John meant by this kind of phrase was
            >anyone's guess, but I would think it was intended to have a sense sort
            >of like Caesar's mythical speech "friends, Romans, countrymen..."
            >
            >

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          • Richard Anderson
            Josephus has a brief discussion oh Herod as firend of caesar. Caesar said that one was safer being Herod s pig than Herod s son. Josephus records in
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 2 4:37 AM
              Josephus has a brief discussion oh Herod as firend of caesar.
              Caesar said that one was safer being Herod's pig than Herod's son.
              Josephus records in Antiquities of the Jews, XVI, ix 3; Book 16, section 286
              that Augustus was furious with Herod in 8 BCE and threatened to treat him no
              longer as a friend (Client), but as a subject (subject to taxes). Josephus
              stated that Augustus wrote to Herod. The sum of his epistle was this, that
              whereas of old he had used him as his friend, he should now use him as his
              subject.
              Richard H. Anderson
              Wallingford PA
              http://www.geocities.com/gospelofluke
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