Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Conclusion to Jesus Quest

Expand Messages
  • Eric Laupot
    Dear Listmembers, I would like to apologize for my tone in the recent discussion. I see now that the reason Listmembers have become so frustrated is that they
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 11, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Listmembers,

      I would like to apologize for my tone in the recent
      discussion. I see now that the reason Listmembers
      have become so frustrated is that they have been
      arguing past each other and failing to address
      the central issue in my paper, that is to say,
      my statistical argument. This statistical method
      needs to be understood clearly before the paper can
      be assessed. If anyone would like to discuss this
      method with me, please feel free to contact me
      on list or off, or, alternatively, call me at
      home at (212) 744-9450.



      Eric Laupot
      PO Box 286510
      New York, NY 10128
      USA
      elaupot@...
      Tel. (212) 744-9450

      ____________________________________________________________________
      Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
    • Stephen Goranson
      Statistics are irrelevant in this case, as the text under discussion does not use the word about which the article speculates. best, Stephen Goranson
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 11, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        Statistics are irrelevant in this case, as the text under discussion does
        not use the word about which the article speculates.

        best,
        Stephen Goranson
        goranson@...

        >Dear Listmembers,
        >
        >I would like to apologize for my tone in the recent
        >discussion. I see now that the reason Listmembers
        >have become so frustrated is that they have been
        >arguing past each other and failing to address
        >the central issue in my paper, that is to say,
        >my statistical argument. This statistical method
        >needs to be understood clearly before the paper can
        >be assessed. If anyone would like to discuss this
        >method with me, please feel free to contact me
        >on list or off, or, alternatively, call me at
        >home at (212) 744-9450.
        >
        >
        >
        >Eric Laupot
      • Eric Laupot
        Pursuant to my earlier message of today, I would like to add that technically Bob Schacht is correct: the Zipf distribution function can indeed be used in my
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 2, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          Pursuant to my earlier message of today, I would
          like to add that technically Bob Schacht is correct:
          the Zipf distribution function can indeed be
          used in my calculation instead of the random
          approach that I used in my study. However,
          having just gotten off the phone with Dr. Bob
          Gorman, let me say that Dr. Gorman feels this
          would not change the outcome significantly. (That
          is why he did not suggest using it in the first
          place.) If you want to go ahead and do the
          calculation anyway, you will see this.

          Actually, there is no specific reference to the
          Zipf distribution function in statistical literature,
          because the term did not originate within the
          profession of statistics. It originated, I believe,
          with a philologist. All it is is a multinomial
          distribution. In order for such a distribution to
          affect my calculation, it would have to be strongly
          skewed toward "stirps," the metaphor in question.
          That is to say, a high percentage of words from
          the pen of Severus or the author of fragment 2
          would have to have been "stirps." Since it is
          obvious that this wasn't the case, there is no
          point really in using a multinomial distribution here,
          and it wouldn't affect the outcome much anyway.
          Still, if you feel it would, do the math and present
          it to us.

          Sincerely,


          Eric Laupot
          PO Box 286510
          New York, NY 10128
          USA
          elaupot@...
          Tel. (212) 744-9450

          ____________________________________________________________________
          Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
        • Bob Schacht
          ... Not only can, but it would be highly appropriate. Zipf distributions have been shown to characterize use of words in a natural language (like English) and
          Message 4 of 4 , Dec 2, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            At 01:57 PM 12/2/00 -0500, you wrote:
            >Pursuant to my earlier message of today, I would
            >like to add that technically Bob Schacht is correct:
            >the Zipf distribution function can indeed be
            >used in my calculation instead of the random
            >approach that I used in my study.

            Not only can, but it would be highly appropriate. Zipf distributions have
            been shown to characterize use of words in a natural language (like
            English) and the popularity of library books, so typically
            * a language has a few words ("the", "and", etc.) that are used
            extremely often, and a library has a few books that everybody wants to
            borrow (current bestsellers)
            * a language has quite a lot of words ("dog", "house", etc.) that
            are used relatively much, and a library has a good number of books that
            many people want to borrow (crime novels and such)
            * a language has an abundance of words ("Zipf",
            "double-logarithmic", etc.) that are almost never used, and a library
            has piles and piles of books that are only checked out every few years
            (reference manuals for Apple II word processors, etc.)


            >However, having just gotten off the phone with Dr. Bob
            >Gorman, let me say that Dr. Gorman feels this
            >would not change the outcome significantly.

            He "feels" that?

            >(That is why he did not suggest using it in the first
            >place.) If you want to go ahead and do the
            >calculation anyway, you will see this.

            I'm not the one trying to prove that the "Christiani" were zealots.

            >Actually, there is no specific reference to the
            >Zipf distribution function in statistical literature,

            This is baloney.

            >because the term did not originate within the
            >profession of statistics. It originated, I believe,
            >with a philologist. All it is is a multinomial
            >distribution.

            Oh? Did Dr. Gorman tell you that? Zipf's law, named after the Harvard
            linguistic professor George Kingsley Zipf (1902-1950), is the observation
            that frequency of occurrence of some event ( P ), as a function of the rank
            ( i) when the rank is determined by the above frequency of occurrence, is a
            power-law function P(i) ~ 1/i**a with the exponent (shown by **) "a" close
            to unity. Note that the tilde ~ indicates "approximately equal to". The
            most famous example of Zipf's law is the frequency of English words. For an
            example, see the distribution at
            <http://hobart.cs.umass.edu/~allan/cs646-f97/char_of_text.html>, which
            suffers (as here) from an attempt to show a formula involving exponents in
            a text medium that does not show exponents clearly. Nevertheless, the site
            shows word distributions in an English text sample.
            Some bibliographic references:

            Fedorowicz, J., "The Theoretical Foundation of Zipf"s Law and Its
            Application to
            the Bibliographic Database Environment", Journal of the American Society for
            Information Science, Volume 33, Number 5, 1982

            Wyllys, R.E., "Empirical and theoretical bases of Zipf"s law", Library Trends,
            Volume 3, Number 1, 1981

            Zipf, G. K. (1949), Human Behaviour and the Principle of Least Effort,
            Addison-Wesley Publishing Company: Cambridge, Massachusetts.

            Instructions on how to apply Zipf's law to word frequencies may be found at
            <http://www.lis.uiuc.edu/~jdownie/biblio/zipf.html>

            You might also find useful:
            G. R. Turner (1997) Relationship Between Vocabulary, Text Length and Zipf's
            Law. Available online at:
            <http://www.btinternet.com/~g.r.turner/ZipfDoc.htm>

            I think your case would be considerably strengthened if you had available a
            frequency analysis of latin words in the extant words of Tacitus, and used
            the Zipf distribution to test your hypothesis. Then maybe more people would
            find your case persuasive.

            Bob


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.