Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [XTalk] Secret Mark

Expand Messages
  • Mahlon H. Smith
    Greetings all: Just got back from the JS meeting in Santa Rosa where Charles W. Hedrick showed his new slides of the Clement letter to Theodore regarding
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 9, 2000
      Greetings all:

      Just got back from the JS meeting in Santa Rosa where Charles W. Hedrick
      showed his new slides of the Clement letter to Theodore regarding secret
      Mark. Excellent color reproductions of these slides have been published
      in the latest issue of 4th R (the Westar journal) vol 13/5 (Sept-Oct
      2000) along with Charlie's detailed account of the mysterious
      maneuverings that have surrounded the "disappearance" of the book in
      which Smith found the copy of the Clement letter. I picked up an advance
      copy fresh off the press. For ordering info see

      http://westarinstitute.org/Periodicals/4R_Articles/4r_articles.html

      Hedrick commented that this new info more or less puts an end to the
      speculation that Morton Smith fabricated the story of the find. These
      new color slides were taken by the former librarian of the Greek
      Orthodox patriarchate in Jerusalem who himself removed the end pages
      from the Voss edition of Irenaeus' letters in which Smith found them. An
      aged foxing stain clearly visible on all photos confirms that these
      pages were where Morton said they were. I further volunteered the
      observation that the visibly uneven aging of the ink with resultant
      discoloration of the paper around the letters (particularly visible on
      the photo of p. 2 [4th R centerfold - p. 14]) pretty much discredits
      Quesnell's theory of a modern forgery, especially one perpetrated by
      Smith who, under the circumstances of the find would not have had the
      technology available to effect such aging of ink (compare the non-aged
      sample of Smith's name on the upper corner of the first page of the same
      Voss volume [4R p. 10]).

      Unfortunately, the original pages are still not themselves available for
      scholarly perusal. The man who photographed them is no longer associated
      with the Patriarchate library in Jerusalem. He had originally removed
      them to be shelved among the other mss. in the patriachal library
      (rather than buried among bound print volumes) but never got around to
      cataloging them. So where they are now is anyone's guess. Given Greek
      Orthodox embarrassment over the controversy caused by Morton's
      hypothesis it is highly questionable whether they will ever turn up.

      Stay tuned, but don't hold your breath or lose any sleep over it. This
      apocalypse is far from imminent. The most important thing about this
      latest info is that it discredits most of the nasty *ad hominem*
      propaganda by scholars who sought to dismiss new historical evidence by
      attacking the scholarly integity of the man who discovered it. From now
      on arguments about secret Mark will have to focus on questions about the
      contents of this letter that claims Clement as its author.

      Shalom!

      Mahlon

      --

      *********************

      Mahlon H. Smith, http://religion.rutgers.edu/mh_smith.html
      Associate Professor
      Department of Religion Virtual Religion Index
      Rutgers University http://religion.rutgers.edu/vri/
      New Brunswick NJ

      Into His Own: Perspective on the World of Jesus
      http://religion.rutgers.edu/iho/

      A Synoptic Gospels Primer
      http://religion.rutgers.edu/nt/primer/

      Jesus Seminar Forum
      http://religion.rutgers.edu/jseminar/
    • Wieland Willker
      May I add that from the color photos it can be seen that the removal of the pages from the book has been done with extreme unskilfulness. The last page has
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 9, 2000
        May I add that from the color photos it can be seen that the removal of the pages from the
        book has been done with extreme unskilfulness. The last page has several losses and even a
        tear into the writing.

        May I also add that Charles Hedrick reports that the former librarian will go to Jerusalem
        and look for the letter. The librarian said, "the reason the present stuff cannot find the
        letter is that the Clement letter (now removed from the book) has nothing distinctive
        about it, and for that reason is difficult to locate." He intends to return to Jerusalem
        and look for it.

        Best wishes
        Wieland
        <><
        ------------------------
        Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
        mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
        http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/
      • LeeEdgarTyler@aol.com
        In a message dated 3/21/2004 8:07:31 PM Central Standard Time, bobmacdonald@shaw.ca writes: In the recently posted list of early documents, I see Secret Mark.
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 21, 2004
          In a message dated 3/21/2004 8:07:31 PM Central Standard Time,
          bobmacdonald@... writes:

          In the recently posted list of early documents, I see Secret
          Mark.

          I had been reading of this in Crossan and someone else (may
          have been Funk's Parallels) recently. I thought it had only
          a single attestation in the 1950s.

          Is it considered a real text? Or is it another
          'unobservable' document? :)

          Bob

          Bob MacDonald
          http://bobmacdonald.gx.ca
          Victoria, B.C., Canada

          -
          Hello, Bob,
          -
          The bit of it that is contained in Clement's letter is certainly observable.
          I think we have to conclude that Clement was quoting from a document--one
          which he probably had before him as he wrote. However, whether this document
          was indeed what it was cracked up to be is another question entirely.
          -
          best,
          -
          Ed Tyler

          http://hometown.aol.com/leeedgartyler/myhomepage/index.html


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jeffrey B. Gibson
          ... Just a note of caution. It is, I believe, actually against copyright and the terms of agreement with Yahoo to reproduce in a public forum such as this
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 21, 2004
            Joseph Weaks wrote:

            > Bob,
            > From the Anchor Bible Dictionary, here's M. Meyer's article:

            Just a note of caution. It is, I believe, actually against copyright and the
            terms of agreement with Yahoo to reproduce in a public forum such as this whole
            articles from such works as the ABD.

            Yours,

            Jeffrey
            --

            Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)

            1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
            Chicago, IL 60626

            jgibson000@...
          • Joseph Weaks
            Jeffrey, Thanks for the warning. I will cease and desist. It was such a short article, I figured... Oh well, Joe Weaks ...
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 21, 2004
              Jeffrey,
              Thanks for the warning. I will cease and desist. It was such a short
              article, I figured...
              Oh well,
              Joe Weaks

              On Mar 21, 2004, at 9:32 PM, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:
              >> Bob,
              >> From the Anchor Bible Dictionary, here's M. Meyer's article:
              >
              > Just a note of caution. It is, I believe, actually against copyright
              > and the
              > terms of agreement with Yahoo to reproduce in a public forum such as
              > this whole
              > articles from such works as the ABD.
              >
              > Yours,
              >
              > Jeffrey
              >

              **************************************************************
              Rev. Joseph A. Weaks
              Senior Minister, Bethany Christian Church, Dallas
              Leander Keck Fellow of NT Studies, Brite Divinity School, Ft. Worth
              Stay-at-home Dad, Balch Springs
              j.weaks@...
              **************************************************************
            • Stephen C. Carlson
              ... In LOST CHRISTIANITIES, p. 82, Bart D. Ehrman states: Some have suspected from the beginning that Smith forged it. Those who think so appear to be
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 21, 2004
                Bob MacDonald <bobmacdonald@...> wrote:
                >In the recently posted list of early documents, I see Secret
                >Mark.
                >
                >I had been reading of this in Crossan and someone else (may
                >have been Funk's Parallels) recently. I thought it had only
                >a single attestation in the 1950s.
                >
                >Is it considered a real text? Or is it another
                >'unobservable' document? :)

                In LOST CHRISTIANITIES, p. 82, Bart D. Ehrman states: "Some
                have suspected from the beginning that Smith forged it. Those
                who think so appear to be increasing in number--or at least they
                are speaking out more, now that Smith is not around to respond."

                Stephen Carlson

                --
                Stephen C. Carlson,
                mailto:scarlson@...
                "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
              • Jeffrey B. Gibson
                ... Believe me, I applaud your intent. I myself have often wished to post certain articles from the ABD to the List. But short or long all, of the articles
                Message 7 of 20 , Mar 22, 2004
                  Joseph Weaks wrote:

                  > Jeffrey,
                  > Thanks for the warning. I will cease and desist. It was such a short
                  > article, I figured...
                  > Oh well,
                  > Joe Weaks
                  >

                  Believe me, I applaud your intent. I myself have often wished to post
                  certain articles from the ABD to the List. But short or long all, of the
                  articles there are (as I understand things) under copyright and require
                  permission to be "used".

                  Yours,

                  Jeffrey

                  --

                  Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)

                  1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
                  Chicago, IL 60626

                  jgibson000@...



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • David C. Hindley
                  ... online]. I will cease and desist. It was such a short article, I figured ... Oh well,
                  Message 8 of 20 , Mar 22, 2004
                    Joe Weaks says:

                    >>Thanks for the warning [from Jeffrey re posting entire ABD articles
                    online]. I will cease and desist. It was such a short article, I figured ...
                    Oh well,<<

                    "Fair use" is a touchy subject. Based on what I've seen discussed on the web
                    and in print (sorry, no citations handy, but the internet abounds with sites
                    that discuss the issue), you can usually post a phrase, a sentence or even a
                    paragraph or two, as long as it is integrated into a discussion (say as
                    proof or an illustration) with a greater point than what the article was
                    making. Entire articles and at times even complete (thematically arranged)
                    chapters are verboten, unless you get the publisher's permission. The point
                    is, they want you to buy the book or journal issue if it is important to
                    your research. That does not always mean publishers don't want you talking
                    about the article or book, since it is a form of free publicity, but there
                    is always a line somewhere that they do not want you to cross.

                    A few list moderators I know (not necessarily Jeffrey, but he may also adopt
                    this tack) put a limit at 100 "lines." On the practical side, 100 lines of
                    what? The original article? What if it is from a web site with a different
                    formatting than the original article? A hundred lines of the end post?
                    <Hmmm. Wasn't this the gist of the "stichoi" thread recently?>

                    My advice is to be judicious.

                    Respectfully,

                    Dave Hindley
                    Cleveland, Ohio, USA
                  • Gordon Raynal
                    Listers... it has been several years ago and I just didn t put the particulars in my head, but Charlie Hedrick wrote a good article about this in The 4th R.
                    Message 9 of 20 , Mar 22, 2004
                      Listers... it has been several years ago and I just didn't put the
                      particulars in my head, but Charlie Hedrick wrote a good article about this
                      in "The 4th R." I don't have it, but folks might check that out. Jeffrey,
                      do you have it or easy access to it?

                      Gordon Raynal
                      Inman, SC
                    • Stephen C. Carlson
                      ... Hedrick s article includes some nice color photographs of the MS of Secret Mark taken in the 1970s and generally confirms Morton Smith s report that I
                      Message 10 of 20 , Mar 22, 2004
                        Gordon Raynal <scudi1@...> wrote:
                        >Listers... it has been several years ago and I just didn't put the
                        >particulars in my head, but Charlie Hedrick wrote a good article about this
                        >in "The 4th R." I don't have it, but folks might check that out. Jeffrey,
                        >do you have it or easy access to it?

                        Hedrick's article includes some nice color photographs of
                        the MS of Secret Mark taken in the 1970s and generally
                        confirms Morton Smith's report that "I left the MS in the
                        Mar Saba library" (Smith, CBQ 38 (1976): 199). Beyond
                        that and some interesting background material, Hedrick
                        was unable to obtain the MS for physical inspection, so,
                        in the final analysis, the "stalemate in the academy" over
                        Secret Mark continues.

                        Stephen Carlson

                        --
                        Stephen C. Carlson,
                        mailto:scarlson@...
                        "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
                      • David C. Hindley
                        ... particulars in my head, but Charlie Hedrick wrote a good article about this in The 4th R. I don t have it, but folks might check that out. Jeffrey, do
                        Message 11 of 20 , Mar 22, 2004
                          Gordon Raynal says:

                          >>Listers... it has been several years ago and I just didn't put the
                          particulars in my head, but Charlie Hedrick wrote a good article about this
                          in "The 4th R." I don't have it, but folks might check that out. Jeffrey,
                          do you have it or easy access to it?<<

                          I believe that article has been superceded by others since, especially after
                          the long missing text resurfaced recently (it had been reshelved in the
                          monastic library without being indexed). The Westar fellows have generally
                          been staunch supporters of Smith's honesty and integrity.

                          Personally, I am not quite past my reservations as to whether the supposed
                          quotation from an unknown letter of Clement is really a bona-fide fragment
                          from Clement or not. Not that I am one of the "Smith is a forger" crowd (the
                          fragment may have been the product of an imaginative monk). Analysis of
                          style is risky on such a small sample. In fact, Smith himself pointed out
                          that small as it is it contains a number of characteristic "Clementisms,"
                          suggesting perhaps that these are more than might be expected by chance
                          alone.

                          Whether, if authentic, it contains a real fragment of a lost form of the
                          gospel of Mark or not, I am on the fence. The relationship of the initiation
                          story and the gospel of John's Lazarus story is interesting, as is the
                          hypothesis of a common document linking them. Still, the supposed letter
                          itself warns Theodore that you can't trust anybody, and that it is OK to lie
                          in defense of truth, etc, (i.e., the author of the letter is implying that
                          Clement himself may be lying in defense of his own mystic tradition) so I'd
                          be hesitant to buy his story about the Secret Mark being original and public
                          Mark a pared down shell. If Clement's crowd really had a Secret Mark they
                          used in their semi-gnostic rites, he probably did not really know its
                          origins or did not want to admit it was possibly derivative of normal Mark
                          and the gospel of John, which is the reverse view of that interesting
                          relationship mentioned above.

                          Respectfully,

                          Dave Hindley
                          Cleveland, Ohio, USA
                        • Gordon Raynal
                          Thanks Stephen, for refreshing my memory and the groups. I see Dave s note after this, but I d suggest that folks look at that and/or for those who go to SBL,
                          Message 12 of 20 , Mar 22, 2004
                            Thanks Stephen, for refreshing my memory and the groups. I see Dave's note
                            after this, but I'd suggest that folks look at that and/or for those who go
                            to SBL, to talk to Charlie about it. He's done some fascinating work
                            himself on other early manuscripts.

                            Gordon Raynal
                            Inman, SC
                            ----------
                            >From: "Stephen C. Carlson" <scarlson@...>
                            >To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: Re: [XTalk] Secret Mark
                            >Date: 22, Mar 2004, 10:01 AM
                            >

                            >Gordon Raynal <scudi1@...> wrote:
                            >>Listers... it has been several years ago and I just didn't put the
                            >>particulars in my head, but Charlie Hedrick wrote a good article about this
                            >>in "The 4th R." I don't have it, but folks might check that out. Jeffrey,
                            >>do you have it or easy access to it?
                            >
                            >Hedrick's article includes some nice color photographs of
                            >the MS of Secret Mark taken in the 1970s and generally
                            >confirms Morton Smith's report that "I left the MS in the
                            >Mar Saba library" (Smith, CBQ 38 (1976): 199). Beyond
                            >that and some interesting background material, Hedrick
                            >was unable to obtain the MS for physical inspection, so,
                            >in the final analysis, the "stalemate in the academy" over
                            >Secret Mark continues.
                            >
                            >Stephen Carlson
                            >
                            >--
                            >Stephen C. Carlson,
                            >mailto:scarlson@...
                            >"Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >The XTalk Home Page is http://ntgateway.com/xtalk/
                            >
                            >To subscribe to Xtalk, send an e-mail to: crosstalk2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to: crosstalk2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >List managers may be contacted directly at: crosstalk2-owners@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Larry Swain
                            ... after this, but I d suggest that folks look at that and/or for those who go to SBL, to talk to Charlie about it.  He s done some fascinating work
                            Message 13 of 20 , Mar 22, 2004
                              >>Thanks Stephen, for refreshing my memory and the groups.  I see Dave's note<BR>
                              after this, but I'd suggest that folks look at that and/or for those who go<BR>
                              to SBL, to talk to Charlie about it.  He's done some fascinating work<BR>
                              himself on other early manuscripts.<<

                              Gordon, et al,

                              Just a pedantic note--the Secret Mark manuscript isn't early unless by early you mean early modern. Its 17th century. This isn't to detract from Hedrick's other work on early material etc, but of course part of the problem with Secret Mark and the "Clementine" letter is that there is no ancient, or even medieval, source remaining. Smith has an explanation, but is the explanation believable? Scholars line up, but no firm conclusion can be made on the current evidence.

                              Larry Swain
                              UIC
                              --
                              _____________________________________________________________
                              Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com
                              From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones.

                              Powered by Outblaze
                            • Larry Swain
                              ... A statement and a question: Hedrick published just last year an article in J of Early Christian Studies an article defending Secret Mark and Smith. There
                              Message 14 of 20 , Mar 22, 2004
                                >>Gordon Raynal says:
                                >
                                >>Listers... it has been several years ago and I just didn't put the particulars in my head, but Charlie Hedrick wrote a good article about this in "The 4th R."  I don't have it, but folks might check that out. 

                                David Replied:
                                >I believe that article has been superceded by others since, especially after the long missing text resurfaced recently (it had been reshelved in the monastic library without being indexed).<

                                A statement and a question: Hedrick published just last year an article in J of Early Christian Studies an article defending Secret Mark and Smith. There is a reply by Bart Ehrman. In this case, Hedrick overstates the case: to my mind it is insufficient to say that because we have photographs of what Smith saw, therefore Smith can not have forged it. Its a significant non sequitur. The Fourth R article has the advantage of publishing color plates taken by the Mar Saba librarian in 1977 rather than Smith's black and white photographs taken in the 1950s.

                                Now to the question: according to this article, not yet a year old, the manuscript and leaves of Secret Mark are missing and have been for some time. So, I'm wondering the basis of your statement that the missing text has resurfaced, and if so, did it include the leaves that the librarian claims to have excised in 1977 with it, or were those leaves yet missing? Somewhere I missed that either the leaves or the manuscript resurfaced.




                                >Personally, I am not quite past my reservations as to whether the supposed<BR>
                                quotation from an unknown letter of Clement is really a bona-fide fragment<BR>
                                from Clement or not. Not that I am one of the "Smith is a forger" crowd (the<BR>
                                fragment may have been the product of an imaginative monk). Analysis of<BR>
                                style is risky on such a small sample.<


                                I don't have notes handy, but there have been both grammatical and vocabulary studies done. The vocabulary study showed that in these 2 pages are high proportion of words that occur only once elsewhere in the Clementine corpus and once were thought to be hapax legomena. To have a few words match is one thing, to have this high a proportion is unusual enough to raise eyebrows. This is the "its too Clementine" argument, but I've not seen a convincing rebuttal. But anyway, on the current evidence available, I agree, I'm not sure if its a forgery or not, and since I'm not, I'm always wary of those who base arguments on it or reconstructions of early christianity with Secret Mark as a cornerstone.

                                Anyway, just a few thoughts.

                                Larry Swain
                                UIC
                                --
                                _____________________________________________________________
                                Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com
                                From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones.

                                Powered by Outblaze
                              • Wieland Willker
                                ... Where did you get this information??? Best wishes Wieland
                                Message 15 of 20 , Mar 22, 2004
                                  Dave Hindley wrote:
                                  > I believe that article has been superceded by others since,
                                  > especially after the long missing text resurfaced recently (it
                                  > had been reshelved in the monastic library without being
                                  > indexed).


                                  Where did you get this information???


                                  Best wishes
                                  Wieland
                                  <><
                                  ------------------------------------------------
                                  Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
                                  mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
                                  http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
                                  Textcritical commentary:
                                  http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
                                • David C. Hindley
                                  ... recently, having been reshelved in the monastic library without being indexed)]???
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Mar 23, 2004
                                    Wieland Willker (and others) ask:

                                    >>Where did you get this information [that the long missing text resurfaced
                                    recently, having been reshelved in the monastic library without being
                                    indexed)]???<<

                                    Hmmm. I *thought* it had been one of those URL type articles that get posted
                                    to ANE list, usually by Stephen Goranson, but I am going to have to dig a
                                    bit. A quick web search for things like Secret Mark with rediscovered, etc,
                                    doesn't seem to bring anything up.

                                    Hopefully, if Stephen is monitoring this list, he may clear up whether this
                                    was something he posted. Otherwise, I'll have to scan my archives, which
                                    could take a few days.

                                    I'll certainly leave open the possibility I've garbled some other info, but
                                    color photos published in 1977 seems a far cry from a recent rediscovery.
                                    The details I seem to remember were that the Voss edition of the letters of
                                    Ignatius was rediscovered, with inscription intact, during a re cataloging
                                    of the monastery's library. Supposedly, it had never been indexed in the
                                    first place, and had sat all those years in a dusty corner full of seldom
                                    read books.

                                    Than again, the mind can invent all sorts of things to make sense of scanty
                                    and especially scattered details. Does any of the above resemble details
                                    associated with the surfacing of the color photos?

                                    Respectfully,

                                    Dave Hindley
                                    Cleveland, Ohio, USA
                                  • Stephen C. Carlson
                                    ... Goranson did post to ANE last summer a notice about three articles published in the Journal of Early Christian Studies by Charles Hedrick, Guy Stroumsa,
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Mar 23, 2004
                                      "David C. Hindley" <dhindley@...> wrote:
                                      >>>Where did you get this information [that the long missing text resurfaced
                                      >recently, having been reshelved in the monastic library without being
                                      >indexed)]???<<
                                      >
                                      >Hmmm. I *thought* it had been one of those URL type articles that get posted
                                      >to ANE list, usually by Stephen Goranson, but I am going to have to dig a
                                      >bit. A quick web search for things like Secret Mark with rediscovered, etc,
                                      >doesn't seem to bring anything up.

                                      Goranson did post to ANE last summer a notice about three articles
                                      published in the Journal of Early Christian Studies by Charles Hedrick,
                                      Guy Stroumsa, and Bart Ehrman, respectively. The second article is
                                      a memoir by Stroumsa of his having seen the MS of Secret Mark in
                                      the Voss edition at Mar Saba in 1976 along with the David Flusser,
                                      Shlomo Pines, and Archimandrate Melito(n) and their taking the book
                                      to the Jerusalem Patriarchate library.

                                      This makes Stroumsa the last Western scholar to have seen the MS
                                      of Secret Mark. According to Hedrick, the pages on which the letter
                                      to Theodore were written had been removed from the book, photo-
                                      graphed, and misplaced. Perhaps, the pages will turn up again soon;
                                      I'm not holding my breath.

                                      Stephen Carlson

                                      --
                                      Stephen C. Carlson,
                                      mailto:scarlson@...
                                      "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
                                    • Larry Swain
                                      ... Just a pedantic point here David, the color photos were taken in 1977 but not published until 2000 in Charles Hedrick s Fourth R article. re: the question
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Mar 23, 2004
                                        David C. Hindley wrote:

                                        >>I'll certainly leave open the possibility I've garbled some other info, but color photos published in 1977 seems a far cry from a recent rediscovery.<<


                                        Just a pedantic point here David, the color photos were taken in 1977 but not published until 2000 in Charles Hedrick's Fourth R article.

                                        re: the question of indexing, as I recall wasn't that one of the things that Smith was doing at Mar Saba--i.e. helping with indexing the holdings while looking for patristic materials in eastern monasteries?

                                        Best Wishes,

                                        Larry Swain
                                        --
                                        _____________________________________________________________
                                        Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com
                                        From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones.

                                        Powered by Outblaze
                                      • John E Staton
                                        IIRC, Scott Brown wrote a rebuttal of Stephen Carlson s thesis in the Expository Times. Is the work referred to the same thing, or is it a longer work? Best
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Apr 24, 2006
                                          IIRC, Scott Brown wrote a rebuttal of Stephen Carlson's thesis in the
                                          Expository Times. Is the work referred to the same thing, or is it a
                                          longer work?

                                          Best Wishes

                                          JOHN E STATON (BA Sheffield; DipTheol. Bristol)

                                          Penistone, Sheffield UK

                                          www.christianreflection.org.uk
                                        • Stephen C. Carlson
                                          ... Since Expository Times holds the copyright to articles published in their issues, I presume that what s been said to be coming out in HTR would be a
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Apr 27, 2006
                                            At 12:08 AM 4/25/2006 +0100, John E Staton wrote:
                                            >IIRC, Scott Brown wrote a rebuttal of Stephen Carlson's thesis in the
                                            >Expository Times. Is the work referred to the same thing, or is it a
                                            >longer work?

                                            Since Expository Times holds the copyright to articles
                                            published in their issues, I presume that what's been
                                            said to be coming out in HTR would be a different critique.

                                            Stephen Carlson
                                            --
                                            Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
                                            Weblog: http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/
                                            Author of: The Gospel Hoax, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1932792481
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.