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Re: Jesus and wine

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  • RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Tom Barnes writes:
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 4, 2000
      Tom Barnes writes:

      << The wine was real wine. Actually, Jesus' frequent attendance at a good
      gave him the reputation of a wine-bibber. Any wine at this party, no matter
      its source or believed source was about 14% ethanol. Besides, the Coca
      Cola plant was on strike in the 1st century. >>

      Leaving aside questions of historicity, it surely has to be real wine
      that is referred to. Yeast is found naturally on grape skins, so grape juice
      will inevitably contain yeast, and will ferment unless artificially prevented
      from doing so. As far as I know they had no way of doing this in the 1st
      Century AD. Unfermented juice would perhaps not have been recognised as wine,
      and one would surely not expect the chief steward to sing its praises!


      Robert Brenchley

    • Tom Barnes
      Professor Dolan do you have any idea how I can have my e-mails forwarded to a new address? I will be bounced out of Temple s system in a few days and I have a
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 5, 2000
        Professor Dolan do you have any idea how I can have my e-mails forwarded to a new address?  I will be bounced out of Temple's system in a few days and I have a new e-mail address.  It is, apa279@... any help would be great thanks, Tom
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 7:56 AM
        Subject: [XTalk] Jesus and wine

        I find John Meier’s analysis of the Cana account persuasive.  Meier argues that the entire pericope shows the hand of the Johannine redactor.  Some of his points relevant to the matter of the water turned wine are as follows:


        1.       Jesus’ implied refusal (2.4) to Mary’s implied request, her continued expectation of his positive response (2.5), and his final, overabundant response (2.7-8) fit John’s emphasis that Jesus is always in control

        a.       Jesus acts when no request is made (5.1-9; 6.1-15; 6.16-21; 9.1-7)

        b.       when Jesus is explicitly or implicitly asked for a miracle, a pattern emerges:

                                                           i.      a petitioner makes an implied or explicit request for a miracle (2.3; 4.47; 11.3)

                                                         ii.      Jesus at first seems to refuse (2.4; 4.48; 11.4)

                                                        iii.      the petitioner doesn’t lose faith that Jesus will act (2.5; 4.49; 11.21-27)

                                                        iv.      Jesus does respond to the persistent faith—in a way more extraordinary and abundant than the petitioner anticipated (2.7-8; 4.50; 11.39-44)

        2.       Johannine presentation of the miracle: overabundance and symbolism

        a.       at Cana there are six stone jars, each holding about 16 to 24 gallons of water—thus, Jesus provides about 144 gallons of wine at the end of the wedding!

        b.       a plentiful grape harvest in fall (the end of the year) leads to a joyful abundance of wine, so the prophets used the symbolism of an abundance of wine at the end of days, when YHWH would transform the world (Amos 9.13-14; Isa 25.6-7; Jer 31.12-14)


        Andrew T. Dolan, Ph.D. Cand.

        Assistant Professor of Theology

        Francis Hall 232

        Alvernia College

        400 St. Bernardine Street

        Reading, PA  19607-1799

        (610) 796-8435


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