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Re: [XTalk] Re: flat universe

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  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
    ... Though I don t want to quash this thread outright, I m struggling hard to find how a discussion on modern scientific discoveries re cosmology could be
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 30, 2000
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      RSBrenchley@... wrote:

      > Tom Simms writes:
      >
      > << Now that today we read that science says the universe is flat,
      > not curved, all questions re resurrection must now be reexamined. >>
      >
      > I've just returned from a weekend conference on science and theology, and I
      > find myself puzzled. It's a pity there isn't (yet) a site for the discussion
      > of points like this; I shall be arguing for the creation of one. The
      > discussion doesn't clarify the point, and we could probably do with some
      > input from the odd cosmologist. My own background (from many years ago) was
      > in biological and earth sciences, so I can't help much. Meanwhile, can this
      > be unpacked a bit, please? What's the connection?
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Robert Brenchley
      >
      > RSBrenchley@...

      Though I don't want to quash this thread outright, I'm struggling hard to find
      how a discussion on modern scientific discoveries re cosmology could be
      considered on-topic. Unless someone can provide an adequate justification for
      its continuance on a List dedicated to questions of the historical Jesus, and
      not the filed of science and modern systematic theology, may I suggest that it
      be taken off List?

      Yours,

      Jeffrey
      --
      Jeffrey B. Gibson
      7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
      Chicago, Illinois 60626
      e-mail jgibson000@...
      jgibson000@...
    • Jack Kilmon
      ... Although it is an interesting topic, its grip on an issue related to studies of the HJ is tenuous at best and decidedly, imo, off topic for the forum. Jack
      Message 2 of 7 , May 1, 2000
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        RSBrenchley@... wrote:
        >
        > Tom Simms writes:
        >
        > << Now that today we read that science says the universe is flat,
        > not curved, all questions re resurrection must now be reexamined. >>
        >
        > I've just returned from a weekend conference on science and theology, and I
        > find myself puzzled. It's a pity there isn't (yet) a site for the discussion
        > of points like this; I shall be arguing for the creation of one. The
        > discussion doesn't clarify the point, and we could probably do with some
        > input from the odd cosmologist. My own background (from many years ago) was
        > in biological and earth sciences, so I can't help much. Meanwhile, can this
        > be unpacked a bit, please? What's the connection?

        Although it is an interesting topic, its grip on an issue related to
        studies of the HJ is tenuous at best and decidedly, imo, off topic
        for the forum.

        Jack

        --
        ______________________________________________

        taybutheh d'maran yeshua masheecha am kulkon

        Jack Kilmon
        jkilmon@...

        http://www.historian.net

        sharing a meal for free.
        http://www.thehungersite.com/
      • Jack Kilmon
        ... Somehow I lost the relevence between Einsteinian space and Jesus resurrection, particularly since we have to deal with the perceptions of the cosmos in
        Message 3 of 7 , May 1, 2000
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          Tom Simms wrote:

          > On Mon, 01 May 2000 08:29:15 -0700, jkilmon@... writes:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >RSBrenchley@... wrote:
          > >>
          > >> Tom Simms writes:
          > >>
          > >> << Now that today we read that science says the universe is flat,
          > >> not curved, all questions re resurrection must now be reexamined. >>
          > >>
          > >> I've just returned from a weekend conference on science and theology, and I
          > >> find myself puzzled. It's a pity there isn't (yet) a site for the discussion
          > >> of points like this; I shall be arguing for the creation of one. The
          > >> discussion doesn't clarify the point, and we could probably do with some
          > >> input from the odd cosmologist. My own background (from many years ago) was
          > >> in biological and earth sciences, so I can't help much. Meanwhile, can this
          > >> be unpacked a bit, please? What's the connection?
          > >
          > >Although it is an interesting topic, its grip on an issue related to
          > >studies of the HJ is tenuous at best and decidedly, imo, off topic
          > >for the forum.
          > >
          > >Jack
          > >
          > Jack
          >
          > My purpose in raising the issue was to discuss the Jewish belief
          > in an afterlife and if Jesus' views as set out were His or His
          > followers. Thought it an obvious segue.

          Somehow I lost the relevence between Einsteinian space and Jesus'
          resurrection, particularly since we have to deal with the perceptions
          of the cosmos in the 1st century. Was Jesus' view of heaven as
          "up" and hell "down?" How does his malkutha d'alaha conform to
          characterizations of heaven? Paradise? What do the DSS tell us
          about this perception, at least among the DSS community?

          Jack

          --
          ______________________________________________

          taybutheh d'maran yeshua masheecha am kulkon

          Jack Kilmon
          jkilmon@...

          http://www.historian.net

          sharing a meal for free.
          http://www.thehungersite.com/
        • Tom Simms
          ... Jack My purpose in raising the issue was to discuss the Jewish belief in an afterlife and if Jesus views as set out were His or His followers. Thought it
          Message 4 of 7 , May 1, 2000
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            On Mon, 01 May 2000 08:29:15 -0700, jkilmon@... writes:
            >
            >
            >
            >RSBrenchley@... wrote:
            >>
            >> Tom Simms writes:
            >>
            >> << Now that today we read that science says the universe is flat,
            >> not curved, all questions re resurrection must now be reexamined. >>
            >>
            >> I've just returned from a weekend conference on science and theology, and I
            >> find myself puzzled. It's a pity there isn't (yet) a site for the discussion
            >> of points like this; I shall be arguing for the creation of one. The
            >> discussion doesn't clarify the point, and we could probably do with some
            >> input from the odd cosmologist. My own background (from many years ago) was
            >> in biological and earth sciences, so I can't help much. Meanwhile, can this
            >> be unpacked a bit, please? What's the connection?
            >
            >Although it is an interesting topic, its grip on an issue related to
            >studies of the HJ is tenuous at best and decidedly, imo, off topic
            >for the forum.
            >
            >Jack
            >
            Jack

            My purpose in raising the issue was to discuss the Jewish belief
            in an afterlife and if Jesus' views as set out were His or His
            followers. Thought it an obvious segue.

            Tom
            >______________________________________________
            >
            >taybutheh d'maran yeshua masheecha am kulkon
            >
            >Jack Kilmon
            >jkilmon@...
            >
            >http://www.historian.net
            >
            >sharing a meal for free.
            >http://www.thehungersite.com/
            >
          • Jack Kilmon
            ... There is a hundred year period that I call the wake of the Seleucids between the Maccabean revolt and the Roman/Herodian period that seems to play a
            Message 5 of 7 , May 1, 2000
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              Tom Simms wrote:

              >
              > >Somehow I lost the relevence between Einsteinian space and Jesus'
              > >resurrection, particularly since we have to deal with the perceptions
              > >of the cosmos in the 1st century. Was Jesus' view of heaven as
              > >"up" and hell "down?" How does his malkutha d'alaha conform to
              > >characterizations of heaven? Paradise? What do the DSS tell us
              > >about this perception, at least among the DSS community?
              > >
              > >Jack
              >
              > Jack, Paradise is a Persian term for the garden of the
              > Shahinshah. As best I can tell the Pharasaic view of
              > an after life was rare among the Scrolls. The reanalysis
              > of the deposit of the Scrolls as just before the advent
              > of Pompey means rereading the texts with different eyes.
              >
              > I'm only faintly catching on to the nuances the above
              > suggests, but from what I know, the Pharisees were the
              > ones taking a view of life after death remotely near to
              > what is taken today. Apocalyptic views, plentiful in
              > the Scrolls, with God Himself providing an immediate
              > and final solution may be what was being developed when
              > Rome took the Messianic claims of Jesus as sedition and
              > made the punishment fit the crime.
              >
              > Does that not change the water on the beans? Any who
              > have widely read the lastest Scroll data please take
              > this Prometheus off his rock.

              There is a hundred year period that I call the "wake of the Seleucids"
              between the Maccabean revolt and the Roman/Herodian period that
              seems to play a great role in the construction of the background for
              the Pharisees, the DSS Community and the Jesus Movement. Increased
              nationalism and backlash to the Seleucids promulgated intensified
              messianic interest and the Daniel/Enochian literature. I think the
              slate was such that if Yeshua bar Yosef/Jesus of Nazareth would not
              have come along, someone else would....perhaps JB..if fortunes would
              have been different. Can a single swing of an executioner's axe or
              the setting of a crucifixion spike change the course of history?
              Sure it can. The DSS, therefore, give us the background.

              Jack

              --
              ______________________________________________

              taybutheh d'maran yeshua masheecha am kulkon

              Jack Kilmon
              jkilmon@...

              http://www.historian.net

              sharing a meal for free.
              http://www.thehungersite.com/
            • Tom Simms
              On Mon, 01 May 2000 11:50:23 -0500, jkilmon@historian.net writes: ... Jack, Paradise is a Persian term for the garden of the Shahinshah. As best I can tell
              Message 6 of 7 , May 1, 2000
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                On Mon, 01 May 2000 11:50:23 -0500, jkilmon@... writes:>
                >Tom Simms wrote:
                >> On Mon, 01 May 2000 08:29:15 -0700, jkilmon@... writes:
                >> >RSBrenchley@... wrote:
                >> >> Tom Simms writes:
                >> My purpose in raising the issue was to discuss the Jewish belief
                >> in an afterlife and if Jesus' views as set out were His or His
                >> followers. Thought it an obvious segue.
                >
                >Somehow I lost the relevence between Einsteinian space and Jesus'
                >resurrection, particularly since we have to deal with the perceptions
                >of the cosmos in the 1st century. Was Jesus' view of heaven as
                >"up" and hell "down?" How does his malkutha d'alaha conform to
                >characterizations of heaven? Paradise? What do the DSS tell us
                >about this perception, at least among the DSS community?
                >
                >Jack

                Jack, Paradise is a Persian term for the garden of the
                Shahinshah. As best I can tell the Pharasaic view of
                an after life was rare among the Scrolls. The reanalysis
                of the deposit of the Scrolls as just before the advent
                of Pompey means rereading the texts with different eyes.

                I'm only faintly catching on to the nuances the above
                suggests, but from what I know, the Pharisees were the
                ones taking a view of life after death remotely near to
                what is taken today. Apocalyptic views, plentiful in
                the Scrolls, with God Himself providing an immediate
                and final solution may be what was being developed when
                Rome took the Messianic claims of Jesus as sedition and
                made the punishment fit the crime.

                Does that not change the water on the beans? Any who
                have widely read the lastest Scroll data please take
                this Prometheus off his rock.

                >
                >Jack Kilmon
                >jkilmon@...

                With respect,

                Tom Simms
              • Tom Simms
                ... [... Snip ...] ... Ah... wake of the Seleucids What Alexander hath wrought? ...splendid. Now tell us where you learn about this time, texts from after
                Message 7 of 7 , May 1, 2000
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                  On Mon, 01 May 2000 16:17:22 -0500, jkilmon@... writes:
                  >Tom Simms wrote:

                  [... Snip ...]

                  >There is a hundred year period that I call the "wake of the Seleucids"
                  >between the Maccabean revolt and the Roman/Herodian period that
                  >seems to play a great role in the construction of the background for
                  >the Pharisees, the DSS Community and the Jesus Movement. Increased
                  >nationalism and backlash to the Seleucids promulgated intensified
                  >messianic interest and the Daniel/Enochian literature. I think the
                  >slate was such that if Yeshua bar Yosef/Jesus of Nazareth would not
                  >have come along, someone else would....perhaps JB..if fortunes would
                  >have been different. Can a single swing of an executioner's axe or
                  >the setting of a crucifixion spike change the course of history?
                  >Sure it can. The DSS, therefore, give us the background.
                  >
                  >Jack

                  Ah..."wake of the Seleucids" What Alexander hath
                  wrought? ...splendid. Now tell us where you learn
                  about this time, texts from after Qumran?

                  BTW, doesn't the Titulus at Basilica Santa Croce read,
                  "Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews" in Aramaic,
                  Greek and Latin ?

                  Thanks for the lead,

                  Tom
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