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[XTalk] Re: Historical Jesus Syllabus

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  • Sean P. Kealy C.S.Sp
    Dear Jeffrey, I would recommend Jesus as a Figure in History by my friend Mark Allan Powell Westminster John Knox Press. This provedes a splendid overview and
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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      Dear Jeffrey, I would recommend Jesus as a Figure in History by my friend
      Mark Allan Powell Westminster John Knox Press. This provedes a splendid
      overview and a very good base for discussion. Sean p. Kealy C.S.Sp





      At 10:12 PM 12/3/99 -0800, you wrote:
      >Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:
      >> Brian,
      >>
      >> Are you asking about books which are actually attempts to engage in the
      quest of, or >to reconstruct, the HJ, or are you looking for surveys of how
      those who have been on >the front lines have been doing so?
      >
      >Jeffrey
      >
      >It would seem that the first type would be more in line with the aim of
      >the course. I am hoping to use some of the "front line" books as extra
      >reading on reserve in the library. I have a feeling that most of the
      >students will not have much awareness of the quest in general and I am
      >concerned about the right textbook to use. I have most everything JS has
      >put out, N.T. Wright's material and other responses to JS books, but I
      >am concerned that some of these works may not be appropriate for a
      >classroom setting. The ideal book would be one that, (1) Provides an
      >historical overview of the quest. (2) Provides a basic guide to
      >historical research methods, (form criticism, redaction, etc.). (3)
      >Provides bibliography and copious footnotes. (4) Interacts with
      >archaeology and other related disciplines. (5) Provides an even handed
      >overview of the differing current thoughts. (6) One that relies heavily
      >on Q...just joking on that one. Is there a book out there like that? I
      >may just have to write my own...yea, right!
      >
      >It seems like journal articles are going to have an important role in
      >the development of a full treatment of this topic. Any suggestions?
      >
      >Thanks
      >Brian Tucker
      >Riverview, MI
      >jbtucker@...
      >
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    • gte_enerspace
      The best undergrad course I have taken on the Historical Jesus, included the following materials: Holy Bible...the more versions in the class the better
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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        The best undergrad course I have taken on the Historical Jesus, included the
        following materials:

        Holy Bible...the more versions in the class the better
        Synopsis of the Four Gospels...Kurt Aland (may be out of print)
        Films on Jesus....there are 6-8 that we reviewed in the class

        Please see my website, below, and go to 'Jesus' button on left of page...for
        much of the work performed and the films reviewed in that class.


        David G. Beshore, P.E.
        http://www.enerspace.com
        enerspac@...
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Brian Tucker" <jbtucker@...>
        To: <crosstalk2@egroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 4:47 PM
        Subject: [XTalk] Historical Jesus Syllabus


        > Greetings
        >
        > I have just been asked to prepare a prospectus for an undergrad class on
        > the Historical Jesus. I would like some suggestions from list members as
        > to what would be the best introductory textboook(s). Also, if anyone
        > would like to share a copy of their syllabus with me it would be greatly
        > appreciated. The syllabus may be sent offline. I checked the archives
        > and I did not see any example syllabi listed.
        >
        > Thanks
        > Brian Tucker, M.A., M.Div, D.Min (candidate)
        > Princeton Bible College
        > Riverview, MI
        > jbtucker@...
        >
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      • Robert M Schacht
        On Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:31:00 -0800 Brian Tucker ... Did you mention what level this class is? Some of those texts are pretty heavy
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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          On Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:31:00 -0800 Brian Tucker <jbtucker@...>
          writes:
          > Greetings
          >
          > This may help the discussion. Here is what I am bouncing around
          > right
          > now:
          >
          > B. Throckmorton, Gospel Parallels
          > E. P. Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus
          > J. D. Crossan, Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography
          > L. T. Johnson, The Real Jesus: The Misguided Quest for the
          > Historical
          > Jesus
          >
          > I am a little concerned about putting this list out there because
          > one
          > may assume something about my intent that is not accurate. I am open
          > to
          > suggestions and criticisms concerning the use of these books in a
          > classroom setting.
          >
          > Thanks
          > Brian Tucker
          > Riverview, MI

          Did you mention what level this class is? Some of those texts are pretty
          heavy going for any level below UG4. If it is an undergrad course, I
          would suggest you might consider Stevan Davies' pithy New Testament
          Fundamentals (Rev. ed.) as an introduction to some of the others you have
          listed.

          Bob
        • Jeffrey B. Gibson
          ... An interesting approach -- so long as what one is studying is how faithful or unfaithful cinematic presentations of Jesus have been to a particular Gospel
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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            gte_enerspace wrote:

            > The best undergrad course I have taken on the Historical Jesus, included the
            > following materials:
            >
            > Holy Bible...the more versions in the class the better
            > Synopsis of the Four Gospels...Kurt Aland (may be out of print)
            > Films on Jesus....there are 6-8 that we reviewed in the class
            >
            > Please see my website, below, and go to 'Jesus' button on left of page...for
            > much of the work performed and the films reviewed in that class.
            >
            > David G. Beshore, P.E.
            > http://www.enerspace.com

            An interesting approach -- so long as what one is studying is how faithful or
            unfaithful cinematic presentations of Jesus have been to a particular Gospel or
            a particular interpretation of it. But I feel compelled to say that it is
            absolutely worthless as a tool for uncovering how the quest has actually been
            carried out since it began or for familiarizing those who wish to become so with
            the methodologies developed and presently employed to investigate, deal with,
            and/or get behind the sources for reconstructing the HJ.

            Yours,

            Jeffrey
            --
            Jeffrey B. Gibson
            7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
            Chicago, Illinois 60626
            e-mail jgibson000@...
          • gte_enerspace
            Please see more at the website on more critical scholarship on the subject. The examination of the cinematic Jesus, was absolutely critical in realizing how
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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              Please see more at the website on more critical scholarship on the subject.
              The examination of the cinematic Jesus, was absolutely critical in realizing
              how influenced most of are of the media and hype surrounding Jesus,
              particularly as we are growing up. The demything of Jesus...is the first
              step, I am afraid, on anyones' adventure and investigation. You are talking
              about a first course, aren't you. Are you an academic?

              I have several areas where I have examined Crossan, etc. on the website You
              and I have only just begun.

              David G. Beshore, P.E.
              http://www.enerspace.com
              enerspac@...
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000@...>
              To: <crosstalk2@egroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 10:12 AM
              Subject: [XTalk] Re: Historical Jesus Syllabus


              > gte_enerspace wrote:
              >
              > > The best undergrad course I have taken on the Historical Jesus, included
              the
              > > following materials:
              > >
              > > Holy Bible...the more versions in the class the better
              > > Synopsis of the Four Gospels...Kurt Aland (may be out of print)
              > > Films on Jesus....there are 6-8 that we reviewed in the class
              > >
              > > Please see my website, below, and go to 'Jesus' button on left of
              page...for
              > > much of the work performed and the films reviewed in that class.
              > >
              > > David G. Beshore, P.E.
              > > http://www.enerspace.com
              >
              > An interesting approach -- so long as what one is studying is how faithful
              or
              > unfaithful cinematic presentations of Jesus have been to a particular
              Gospel or
              > a particular interpretation of it. But I feel compelled to say that it is
              > absolutely worthless as a tool for uncovering how the quest has actually
              been
              > carried out since it began or for familiarizing those who wish to become
              so with
              > the methodologies developed and presently employed to investigate, deal
              with,
              > and/or get behind the sources for reconstructing the HJ.
              >
              > Yours,
              >
              > Jeffrey
              > --
              > Jeffrey B. Gibson
              > 7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
              > Chicago, Illinois 60626
              > e-mail jgibson000@...
              >
              >
              >
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            • Jeffrey B. Gibson
              ... Let s take a step back here. The original request for suggestions on books and syllabi for an HJ course came not from me but from Brian Tucker. More ... In
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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                gte_enerspace wrote:
                Please see more at the website on more critical scholarship on the subject.
                The examination of the cinematic Jesus, was absolutely critical in realizing
                how influenced most of are of the media and hype surrounding Jesus,
                particularly as we are growing up.  The demything of Jesus...is the first
                step, I am afraid, on anyones' adventure and investigation.  You are talking
                about a first course, aren't you.
                Let's take a step back here. The original request for suggestions on books and syllabi for an HJ course came not from me but from Brian Tucker. More importantly, he asked for suggestions on material such that  (to quote him) it :
                (1) Provides an
                historical overview of the quest. (2) Provides a basic guide to
                historical research methods, (form criticism, redaction, etc.). (3)
                Provides bibliography and copious footnotes. (4) Interacts with
                archaeology and other related disciplines. (5) Provides an even handed
                overview of the differing current thoughts.


                In the light of these criteria, indeed, for anyone who wants to become aquatinted with the history of the quest and the options that serious historians have adopted,  I still maintain that watching a series of Jesus films has no value whatsoever. One or two in a course might help a teacher raise some issues, but a whole course devoted to them tells us little more about the HJ than watching Eroll Flynn's *They Dies with their Boots on* tells us about Custer or the methods that historians use in trying to recover and reconstruct the HC. 

                Moreover, while demythologizing Jesus **might** be a first step towards an interest in investigating the HJ, I think you overstate the case not only that it is the only thing that has or will cause anyone to become interested in engaging in the quest, but that seeing Jesus films -- which actually only serve to remythologize him -- is the best way to go about it. While it may have been so for you, I wonder how far this actually can be universalized? Indeed, I know people for whom particular Jesus films only caused a desire to reaffirm their orthodoxy and become resistant to scholarship..

                And as to your question:

                 Are you an academic?
                 
                both Oxford University, which conferred upon me a doctorate, and Loyola University, where I teach, seem to think so -- but don't let it get around. For a brief bio, see the "bios" link at the end of the XTalk home page (www.xtalk.org).

                Yours,

                Jeffrey
                --
                Jeffrey B. Gibson
                7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
                Chicago, Illinois 60626
                e-mail jgibson000@...
                 

              • gte_enerspace
                Sorry, somehow lost the original author of this thread. Was an interesting dialogue, nevertheless. Film criticism is just as important as Form Criticism in
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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                  Sorry, somehow lost the original author of this thread.  Was an interesting dialogue, nevertheless.  Film criticism is just as important as Form Criticism in the quest, which you seem to be hooked on.
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 1:12 PM
                  Subject: [XTalk] Re: Historical Jesus Syllabus

                  gte_enerspace wrote:
                  Please see more at the website on more critical scholarship on the subject.
                  The examination of the cinematic Jesus, was absolutely critical in realizing
                  how influenced most of are of the media and hype surrounding Jesus,
                  particularly as we are growing up.  The demything of Jesus...is the first
                  step, I am afraid, on anyones' adventure and investigation.  You are talking
                  about a first course, aren't you.
                  Let's take a step back here. The original request for suggestions on books and syllabi for an HJ course came not from me but from Brian Tucker. More importantly, he asked for suggestions on material such that  (to quote him) it :
                  (1) Provides an
                  historical overview of the quest. (2) Provides a basic guide to
                  historical research methods, (form criticism, redaction, etc.). (3)
                  Provides bibliography and copious footnotes. (4) Interacts with
                  archaeology and other related disciplines. (5) Provides an even handed
                  overview of the differing current thoughts.


                  In the light of these criteria, indeed, for anyone who wants to become aquatinted with the history of the quest and the options that serious historians have adopted,  I still maintain that watching a series of Jesus films has no value whatsoever. One or two in a course might help a teacher raise some issues, but a whole course devoted to them tells us little more about the HJ than watching Eroll Flynn's *They Dies with their Boots on* tells us about Custer or the methods that historians use in trying to recover and reconstruct the HC. 

                  Moreover, while demythologizing Jesus **might** be a first step towards an interest in investigating the HJ, I think you overstate the case not only that it is the only thing that has or will cause anyone to become interested in engaging in the quest, but that seeing Jesus films -- which actually only serve to remythologize him -- is the best way to go about it. While it may have been so for you, I wonder how far this actually can be universalized? Indeed, I know people for whom particular Jesus films only caused a desire to reaffirm their orthodoxy and become resistant to scholarship..

                  And as to your question:

                   Are you an academic?
                   
                  both Oxford University, which conferred upon me a doctorate, and Loyola University, where I teach, seem to think so -- but don't let it get around. For a brief bio, see the "bios" link at the end of the XTalk home page (www.xtalk.org).

                  Yours,

                  Jeffrey
                  --
                  Jeffrey B. Gibson
                  7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
                  Chicago, Illinois 60626
                  e-mail jgibson000@...
                   


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                • Jeffrey B. Gibson
                  ... I am rather astounded by this claim. Do you really believe that aesthetic criticism of something (Jesus films) that is often, at best, a third hand
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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                    gte_enerspace wrote:
                    Sorry, somehow lost the original author of this thread.  Was an interesting dialogue, nevertheless.  Film criticism is just as important as Form Criticism in the quest, which you seem to be hooked on.


                    I am rather astounded by this claim. Do you really believe that aesthetic criticism of something (Jesus films) that is often, at best,  a third hand interpretation (and which usually involves a rather uncareful and eclectic use) of NT and other ancient sources dealing with the HJ, is really on the same order methodologically and from an historiographic point of view as an historical-critical engagement with the sources themselves? Or that King of Kings is of the same historical and evidentiary value as Josephus' _War_? When did KofK become scripture, let alone an ancient source? Should we not then use the Urantia book, or the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ by Levi,  as well?

                    In any case, I'd be grateful if you'd spare me your aphibolistic speculations of what I'm hooked on. I love Jesus films, owning many myself, and having even tried my hand once at making one. But I know enough not to regard them as anything like primary or useful historical evidence for the HJ.

                    Yours,

                    Jeffrey Gibson
                    ---
                    Jeffrey B. Gibson
                    7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
                    Chicago, Illinois 60626
                    e-mail jgibson000@...
                     

                  • Mark Goodacre
                    ... Might I suggest a means by which this debate can be resolved? On the one hand, there are many ways in which the study of Jesus films might help in the
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 6, 1999
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                      On 4 Dec 99, at 19:29, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:

                      > gte_enerspace wrote:
                      >
                      > > Sorry, somehow lost the original author of this thread. Was an
                      > > interesting dialogue, nevertheless. Film criticism is just as
                      > > important as Form Criticism in the quest, which you seem to be hooked
                      > > on.
                      >
                      > I am rather astounded by this claim. Do you really believe that
                      > aesthetic criticism of something (Jesus films) that is often, at best, a
                      > third hand interpretation (and which usually involves a rather uncareful
                      > and eclectic use) of NT and other ancient sources dealing with the HJ, is
                      > really on the same order methodologically and from an historiographic
                      > point of view as an historical-critical engagement with the sources
                      > themselves?

                      Might I suggest a means by which this debate can be resolved? On
                      the one hand, there are many ways in which the study of Jesus films
                      might help "in the quest", as David Beshore affirms, e.g. they stimulate
                      the imagination of the researcher and suggest fresh avenues for
                      investigation by the historian. I use Jesus films in historical Jesus
                      lectures, for example, to encourage students to think through certain
                      themes in Jesus research.

                      On the other hand, Jeffrey is of course correct that Jesus films can in
                      no way be a primary source of information on the historical Jesus.

                      While we are on the topic of Jesus films, I hope I may be excused a
                      little shameless self-publicity. I have recently had an article published
                      in _The Journal of Religion and Film_ entitled "Do You Think You're
                      What They Say You Are? Reflections on Jesus Christ Superstar". It
                      is available electronically at:

                      http://www.unomaha.edu/~wwwjrf/JesusCss.htm

                      Mark
                      --------------------------------------
                      Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                      Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                      University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                      Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

                      http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                      The New Testament Gateway
                      Mark Without Q
                      Aseneth Home Page
                    • Mark Goodacre
                      In addition to all those mentioned, I would want to stress (for the umpteenth time - - sorry everyone) the value of E. P. Sanders & Margaret Davies, _Studying
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 6, 1999
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                        In addition to all those mentioned, I would want to stress (for the umpteenth time -
                        - sorry everyone) the value of E. P. Sanders & Margaret Davies, _Studying the
                        Synoptic Gospels_ because (a) it has the requisite introduction to source & form
                        criticism etc. for which Brian asked. This is rare in books dealing with the
                        historical Jesus -- lamentably so -- and (b) it has such a good discussion of the
                        criteria for doing Jesus research, ideally pitched for the beginning student. I
                        recommend this book for students on my own Jesus course.

                        Also not mentioned so far is C. J. Den Heyer's _Jesus Matters_ (ET, London:
                        SCM, 1996), again an ideal student introduction. If it helps, I have a brief on the
                        web, reproduced from an article I wrote in RRT in 1997,
                        http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre/revnt1.htm#den Heyer

                        Mark
                        --------------------------------------
                        Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                        Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                        University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                        Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

                        http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                        The New Testament Gateway
                        Mark Without Q
                        Aseneth Home Page
                      • Gail Dawson
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 8, 1999
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                          > Brian, you may want to check out the following resources for syllabi if
                          > someone hasn't directed you to them already:
                          >
                          > The AAR Syllabi Project web site has a collection of syllabi, some of
                          > which are pertinent to the study of the Historical Jesus and Christian
                          > origins--go to this link and look under "Christian Origins":
                          > http://www.wlu.ca/~wwwaar/course_syllabi.html
                          >
                          > Additionally, the following link on the AAR page will take you to
                          > additional resources on the Web for locating religious studies syllabi
                          > (but you'll have to scan through them to find ones that pertain
                          > specifically to the Historical Jesus):
                          >
                          > http://www.wlu.ca/~wwwaar/syllabi_online.html
                          >
                          > The AAR home page is at this link: http://www.aar-site.org/
                          >
                          > Hope this helps,
                          >
                          > Gail Dawson
                          > Edinburg, Va.
                        • Mark Goodacre
                          One or two new web resources may be of interest to the list. John P. Meier has a most interesting article on The Present State of the ‘Third Quest’ for
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 8, 1999
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                            One or two new web resources may be of interest to the list. John P. Meier has a
                            most interesting article on "The Present State of the ‘Third Quest’ for the
                            Historical Jesus" in the current issue of the now on-line Biblica:

                            http://www.bsw.org/project/biblica/bibl80/Comm11.htm

                            (Good to see that he mentions Steve Davies's book in his section on the
                            importance of healing, though no discussion of it).

                            I have also recently added a section on "Women & Gender" to my NT Gateway,
                            address at:

                            http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre/links.htm

                            Mark




                            --------------------------------------
                            Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                            Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                            University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                            Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

                            http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                            The New Testament Gateway
                            Mark Without Q
                            Aseneth Home Page
                          • Dennis C. Duling
                            This past semester I tried Theissen on my undergraduates. Their first exam was horrible; their second exam was quite good. However, I have worked about as hard
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 9, 1999
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                              This past semester I tried Theissen on my undergraduates. Their first
                              exam was horrible; their second exam was quite good. However, I have
                              worked about as hard as I ever have on a course -- a lot of it
                              explaining Theissen. The translation at points needs some improvement,
                              too. So I would say that it is only for the bold and very ambitious, as
                              far as an undergraduate text goes.
                              I'll go back to a simpler text for my undergraduates. W. Barnes Tatum
                              has a new edition of his little classic out, and I'll try it next time,
                              along with one of the newer general books on Jesus, perhaps D. Allison
                              or B. Ehrman on the apocalyptic-millennial side and s.t. from the
                              Q-Thomas axis on the other side (Crossan), or perhaps (again) Borg. If
                              my course evaluations should prove me wrong, I'll let you know.


                              dd

                              Mark Goodacre wrote:
                              >
                              > In addition to all those mentioned, I would want to stress (for the umpteenth time -
                              > - sorry everyone) the value of E. P. Sanders & Margaret Davies, _Studying the
                              > Synoptic Gospels_ because (a) it has the requisite introduction to source & form
                              > criticism etc. for which Brian asked. This is rare in books dealing with the
                              > historical Jesus -- lamentably so -- and (b) it has such a good discussion of the
                              > criteria for doing Jesus research, ideally pitched for the beginning student. I
                              > recommend this book for students on my own Jesus course.
                              >
                              > Also not mentioned so far is C. J. Den Heyer's _Jesus Matters_ (ET, London:
                              > SCM, 1996), again an ideal student introduction. If it helps, I have a brief on the
                              > web, reproduced from an article I wrote in RRT in 1997,
                              > http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre/revnt1.htm#den Heyer
                              >
                              > Mark
                              > --------------------------------------
                              > Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                              > Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                              > University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                              > Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom
                              >
                              > http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                              > The New Testament Gateway
                              > Mark Without Q
                              > Aseneth Home Page
                              >
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                            • Mark Goodacre
                              ... Thanks for the interesting feedback. I begin a course on Jesus research after Christmas and am contemplating using Theissen & Merz a bit, so this is
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 10, 1999
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                                On 9 Dec 99, at 14:12, Dennis C. Duling wrote:

                                > This past semester I tried Theissen on my undergraduates. Their first exam
                                > was horrible; their second exam was quite good. However, I have worked
                                > about as hard as I ever have on a course -- a lot of it explaining
                                > Theissen. The translation at points needs some improvement, too. So I
                                > would say that it is only for the bold and very ambitious, as far as an
                                > undergraduate text goes. I'll go back to a simpler text for my
                                > undergraduates. W. Barnes Tatum has a new edition of his little classic
                                > out, and I'll try it next time, along with one of the newer general books
                                > on Jesus, perhaps D. Allison or B. Ehrman on the apocalyptic-millennial
                                > side and s.t. from the Q-Thomas axis on the other side (Crossan), or
                                > perhaps (again) Borg. If my course evaluations should prove me wrong, I'll
                                > let you know.

                                Thanks for the interesting feedback. I begin a course on Jesus
                                research after Christmas and am contemplating using Theissen &
                                Merz a bit, so this is useful to know. But I'll use a variety of key texts,
                                Sanders, Sanders & Davies, den Heyer, Crossan, Fredriksen,
                                perhaps Powell as well as Theissen & Merz. For another recent
                                (fairly positive) review of Theissen & Merz, see the recent one in the
                                SBL Review of Biblical Literature by James Robinson:

                                http://www.bookreviews.org/Reviews/0800631234.html

                                Mark
                                --------------------------------------
                                Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                                Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                                University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                                Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

                                http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                                The New Testament Gateway
                                All-in-One Biblical Resources Search
                                Mark Without Q
                                Aseneth Home Page
                              • Dennis C. Duling
                                Many thanks. I reviewed it in Bible Review, though my review was considerably edited down by the editors. dd
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 13, 1999
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Many thanks. I reviewed it in Bible Review, though my review was
                                  considerably edited down by the editors.
                                  dd

                                  Mark Goodacre wrote:
                                  >
                                  > On 9 Dec 99, at 14:12, Dennis C. Duling wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > This past semester I tried Theissen on my undergraduates. Their first exam
                                  > > was horrible; their second exam was quite good. However, I have worked
                                  > > about as hard as I ever have on a course -- a lot of it explaining
                                  > > Theissen. The translation at points needs some improvement, too. So I
                                  > > would say that it is only for the bold and very ambitious, as far as an
                                  > > undergraduate text goes. I'll go back to a simpler text for my
                                  > > undergraduates. W. Barnes Tatum has a new edition of his little classic
                                  > > out, and I'll try it next time, along with one of the newer general books
                                  > > on Jesus, perhaps D. Allison or B. Ehrman on the apocalyptic-millennial
                                  > > side and s.t. from the Q-Thomas axis on the other side (Crossan), or
                                  > > perhaps (again) Borg. If my course evaluations should prove me wrong, I'll
                                  > > let you know.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for the interesting feedback. I begin a course on Jesus
                                  > research after Christmas and am contemplating using Theissen &
                                  > Merz a bit, so this is useful to know. But I'll use a variety of key texts,
                                  > Sanders, Sanders & Davies, den Heyer, Crossan, Fredriksen,
                                  > perhaps Powell as well as Theissen & Merz. For another recent
                                  > (fairly positive) review of Theissen & Merz, see the recent one in the
                                  > SBL Review of Biblical Literature by James Robinson:
                                  >
                                  > http://www.bookreviews.org/Reviews/0800631234.html
                                  >
                                  > Mark
                                  > --------------------------------------
                                  > Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                                  > Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                                  > University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                                  > Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom
                                  >
                                  > http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                                  > The New Testament Gateway
                                  > All-in-One Biblical Resources Search
                                  > Mark Without Q
                                  > Aseneth Home Page
                                  >
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