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[XTalk] Re: Historical Jesus Syllabus

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  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
    ... Not exactly a classroom book -- at least at an undergraduate level -- but one you ll want to consult continuously is Theissen & Mertz _The Historical
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 3, 1999
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      Brian Tucker wrote:

      > Greetings
      >
      > This may help the discussion. Here is what I am bouncing around right
      > now:
      >
      > B. Throckmorton, Gospel Parallels
      > E. P. Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus
      > J. D. Crossan, Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography
      > L. T. Johnson, The Real Jesus: The Misguided Quest for the Historical
      > Jesus
      >
      > I am a little concerned about putting this list out there because one
      > may assume something about my intent that is not accurate. I am open to
      > suggestions and criticisms concerning the use of these books in a
      > classroom setting.
      >

      Not exactly a classroom book -- at least at an undergraduate level -- but one
      you'll want to consult continuously is Theissen & Mertz _The Historical
      Jesus_. And I would also urge all of your students to pick up the _Dictionary
      of Jesus and the Gospels_. All of the background material, methodological
      issues, etc., you say you want to explore will be found between them.

      Yours,

      Jeffrey

      --
      Jeffrey B. Gibson
      7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
      Chicago, Illinois 60626
      e-mail jgibson000@...
    • David C. Hindley
      ... of the course. I am hoping to use some of the front line books as extra reading on reserve in the library. I have a feeling that most of the students
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 3, 1999
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        brian tucker <jbtucke-@...> wrote:

        >>It would seem that the first type would be more in line with the aim
        of the course. I am hoping to use some of the "front line" books as
        extra reading on reserve in the library. I have a feeling that most of
        the students will not have much awareness of the quest in general and I
        am concerned about the right textbook to use. I have most everything JS
        has put out, N.T. Wright's material and other responses to JS books,
        but I am concerned that some of these works may not be appropriate for
        a classroom setting. The ideal book would be one that, (1) Provides an
        historical overview of the quest. (2) Provides a basic guide to
        historical research methods, (form criticism, redaction, etc.). (3)
        Provides bibliography and copious footnotes. (4) Interacts with
        archaeology and other related disciplines. (5) Provides an even handed
        overview of the differing current thoughts.<<

        Whew! You may want to use more than one "textbook" for your class.

        For an introduction to the original quest, I'd suggest going right to
        Schweitzer's _The Quest of the Historical Jesus_. It has everything you
        ask for, is witty (but starts to drag about half way through - his
        sequel _Paul and His Interpreters_ was actually better written IMO),
        and well known. Scheitzer does interject his own fairly liberal POV
        (for his day), but this drawback can be turned to advantage by pointing
        out that Schweitzer also freely admits and accepts the fact that none
        of the scholars who engaged in the quest up to his time had been able
        to free themselves from their own biases either. It just comes with the
        territory.

        I am not totally happy with much of what is available (in print)
        dealing with the 20th century continuation of the quest, but I would
        strongly recommend J P Meier's two volume _A Marginal Jew_, which is
        thorough and heavily footnoted. Meier is moderate, and he always
        reaches a moderate position when concluding each section of the
        investigation, but to get there he also does not shy away from asking
        the tough questions and covers a wide variety of positions on each
        topic, and does so in a fairly objective manner.

        I think Meier's volumes would compliment Schweitzer's very well. Also,
        there is the advantage that your students will more than likely NOT
        sell these three books back to the bookstore after your class is over,
        if they have any real interest in this topic at all.

        On the other hand, for this latter period of the quest there is always
        Ben Witherington's _The Jesus Quest_ (if you don't mind his
        conservative bias), and Funk's _Honest to Jesus_ (if you don't mind his
        liberal bias). The drawbacks will be lack of good footnotes, but these
        names are relatively well known among well read laypersons. You'd
        probably have to get both, and while they each cost a little less than
        a volume of Meier's work it seems to make no sense to me to have them
        lay out $25 each when an additional $10 will get them a much more
        useful "textbook." Personally, I think you are much better off with
        Meier's two volumes.

        Regards,

        Dave Hindley

        Disclaimer: The terms "liberal" and "concervative" were here intended
        to represent relative positions in the religious spectrum and were not
        used, nor intended to be taken, in a negative (or for that matter, a
        positive) manner. The use made of these terms does not necessarily
        reflect the position of the author of this post. However, if you agree
        with them then they are the positions of this author, and if you do not
        agree with them then they are someone else's positions. This disclaimer
        is void where prohibited by law.
      • Brian Tucker
        Greetings This may help the discussion. Here is what I am bouncing around right now: B. Throckmorton, Gospel Parallels E. P. Sanders, The Historical Figure of
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 3, 1999
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          Greetings

          This may help the discussion. Here is what I am bouncing around right
          now:

          B. Throckmorton, Gospel Parallels
          E. P. Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus
          J. D. Crossan, Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography
          L. T. Johnson, The Real Jesus: The Misguided Quest for the Historical
          Jesus

          I am a little concerned about putting this list out there because one
          may assume something about my intent that is not accurate. I am open to
          suggestions and criticisms concerning the use of these books in a
          classroom setting.

          Thanks
          Brian Tucker
          Riverview, MI
          jbtucker@...
        • Brian Tucker
          ... What is the title of the above mentioned book? I have used Witherington s book and I probably was planning on developing some of my presentations around
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 3, 1999
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            > You should also be aware that IVP has just come out with a full length >book on various aspects of Tom Wright's JVG.

            What is the title of the above mentioned book? I have used
            Witherington's book and I probably was planning on developing some of my
            presentations around it. Thanks for the info, I'll locate the others and
            give them a look.

            Thanks
            Brian Tucker
            Riverview, MI
            jbtucker@...
          • Jeffrey B. Gibson
            ... It is called _Jesus and the Restoration of Israel_ and it s edited by Carey Newman. On the same topic, that is, the topic of a reconstruction of Jesus and
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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              Brian Tucker wrote:

              > > You should also be aware that IVP has just come out with a full length >book on various aspects of Tom Wright's JVG.
              >
              > What is the title of the above mentioned book? I have used
              > Witherington's book and I probably was planning on developing some of my
              > presentations around it. Thanks for the info, I'll locate the others and
              > give them a look.

              It is called _Jesus and the Restoration of Israel_ and it's edited by Carey Newman. On the same topic, that is, the topic
              of a reconstruction of Jesus and Israel, one more book should be consulted -- that of Scot McKnight entitled _A New Vision
              for Israel: The Teaching of Jesus in National Context (Eerdmans).

              Yours,

              Jeffrey
              --
              Jeffrey B. Gibson
              7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
              Chicago, Illinois 60626
              e-mail jgibson000@...
            • Sean P. Kealy C.S.Sp
              Dear Jeffrey, I would recommend Jesus as a Figure in History by my friend Mark Allan Powell Westminster John Knox Press. This provedes a splendid overview and
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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                Dear Jeffrey, I would recommend Jesus as a Figure in History by my friend
                Mark Allan Powell Westminster John Knox Press. This provedes a splendid
                overview and a very good base for discussion. Sean p. Kealy C.S.Sp





                At 10:12 PM 12/3/99 -0800, you wrote:
                >Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:
                >> Brian,
                >>
                >> Are you asking about books which are actually attempts to engage in the
                quest of, or >to reconstruct, the HJ, or are you looking for surveys of how
                those who have been on >the front lines have been doing so?
                >
                >Jeffrey
                >
                >It would seem that the first type would be more in line with the aim of
                >the course. I am hoping to use some of the "front line" books as extra
                >reading on reserve in the library. I have a feeling that most of the
                >students will not have much awareness of the quest in general and I am
                >concerned about the right textbook to use. I have most everything JS has
                >put out, N.T. Wright's material and other responses to JS books, but I
                >am concerned that some of these works may not be appropriate for a
                >classroom setting. The ideal book would be one that, (1) Provides an
                >historical overview of the quest. (2) Provides a basic guide to
                >historical research methods, (form criticism, redaction, etc.). (3)
                >Provides bibliography and copious footnotes. (4) Interacts with
                >archaeology and other related disciplines. (5) Provides an even handed
                >overview of the differing current thoughts. (6) One that relies heavily
                >on Q...just joking on that one. Is there a book out there like that? I
                >may just have to write my own...yea, right!
                >
                >It seems like journal articles are going to have an important role in
                >the development of a full treatment of this topic. Any suggestions?
                >
                >Thanks
                >Brian Tucker
                >Riverview, MI
                >jbtucker@...
                >
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              • gte_enerspace
                The best undergrad course I have taken on the Historical Jesus, included the following materials: Holy Bible...the more versions in the class the better
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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                  The best undergrad course I have taken on the Historical Jesus, included the
                  following materials:

                  Holy Bible...the more versions in the class the better
                  Synopsis of the Four Gospels...Kurt Aland (may be out of print)
                  Films on Jesus....there are 6-8 that we reviewed in the class

                  Please see my website, below, and go to 'Jesus' button on left of page...for
                  much of the work performed and the films reviewed in that class.


                  David G. Beshore, P.E.
                  http://www.enerspace.com
                  enerspac@...
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Brian Tucker" <jbtucker@...>
                  To: <crosstalk2@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 4:47 PM
                  Subject: [XTalk] Historical Jesus Syllabus


                  > Greetings
                  >
                  > I have just been asked to prepare a prospectus for an undergrad class on
                  > the Historical Jesus. I would like some suggestions from list members as
                  > to what would be the best introductory textboook(s). Also, if anyone
                  > would like to share a copy of their syllabus with me it would be greatly
                  > appreciated. The syllabus may be sent offline. I checked the archives
                  > and I did not see any example syllabi listed.
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  > Brian Tucker, M.A., M.Div, D.Min (candidate)
                  > Princeton Bible College
                  > Riverview, MI
                  > jbtucker@...
                  >
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                • Robert M Schacht
                  On Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:31:00 -0800 Brian Tucker ... Did you mention what level this class is? Some of those texts are pretty heavy
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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                    On Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:31:00 -0800 Brian Tucker <jbtucker@...>
                    writes:
                    > Greetings
                    >
                    > This may help the discussion. Here is what I am bouncing around
                    > right
                    > now:
                    >
                    > B. Throckmorton, Gospel Parallels
                    > E. P. Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus
                    > J. D. Crossan, Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography
                    > L. T. Johnson, The Real Jesus: The Misguided Quest for the
                    > Historical
                    > Jesus
                    >
                    > I am a little concerned about putting this list out there because
                    > one
                    > may assume something about my intent that is not accurate. I am open
                    > to
                    > suggestions and criticisms concerning the use of these books in a
                    > classroom setting.
                    >
                    > Thanks
                    > Brian Tucker
                    > Riverview, MI

                    Did you mention what level this class is? Some of those texts are pretty
                    heavy going for any level below UG4. If it is an undergrad course, I
                    would suggest you might consider Stevan Davies' pithy New Testament
                    Fundamentals (Rev. ed.) as an introduction to some of the others you have
                    listed.

                    Bob
                  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
                    ... An interesting approach -- so long as what one is studying is how faithful or unfaithful cinematic presentations of Jesus have been to a particular Gospel
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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                      gte_enerspace wrote:

                      > The best undergrad course I have taken on the Historical Jesus, included the
                      > following materials:
                      >
                      > Holy Bible...the more versions in the class the better
                      > Synopsis of the Four Gospels...Kurt Aland (may be out of print)
                      > Films on Jesus....there are 6-8 that we reviewed in the class
                      >
                      > Please see my website, below, and go to 'Jesus' button on left of page...for
                      > much of the work performed and the films reviewed in that class.
                      >
                      > David G. Beshore, P.E.
                      > http://www.enerspace.com

                      An interesting approach -- so long as what one is studying is how faithful or
                      unfaithful cinematic presentations of Jesus have been to a particular Gospel or
                      a particular interpretation of it. But I feel compelled to say that it is
                      absolutely worthless as a tool for uncovering how the quest has actually been
                      carried out since it began or for familiarizing those who wish to become so with
                      the methodologies developed and presently employed to investigate, deal with,
                      and/or get behind the sources for reconstructing the HJ.

                      Yours,

                      Jeffrey
                      --
                      Jeffrey B. Gibson
                      7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
                      Chicago, Illinois 60626
                      e-mail jgibson000@...
                    • gte_enerspace
                      Please see more at the website on more critical scholarship on the subject. The examination of the cinematic Jesus, was absolutely critical in realizing how
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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                        Please see more at the website on more critical scholarship on the subject.
                        The examination of the cinematic Jesus, was absolutely critical in realizing
                        how influenced most of are of the media and hype surrounding Jesus,
                        particularly as we are growing up. The demything of Jesus...is the first
                        step, I am afraid, on anyones' adventure and investigation. You are talking
                        about a first course, aren't you. Are you an academic?

                        I have several areas where I have examined Crossan, etc. on the website You
                        and I have only just begun.

                        David G. Beshore, P.E.
                        http://www.enerspace.com
                        enerspac@...
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000@...>
                        To: <crosstalk2@egroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 10:12 AM
                        Subject: [XTalk] Re: Historical Jesus Syllabus


                        > gte_enerspace wrote:
                        >
                        > > The best undergrad course I have taken on the Historical Jesus, included
                        the
                        > > following materials:
                        > >
                        > > Holy Bible...the more versions in the class the better
                        > > Synopsis of the Four Gospels...Kurt Aland (may be out of print)
                        > > Films on Jesus....there are 6-8 that we reviewed in the class
                        > >
                        > > Please see my website, below, and go to 'Jesus' button on left of
                        page...for
                        > > much of the work performed and the films reviewed in that class.
                        > >
                        > > David G. Beshore, P.E.
                        > > http://www.enerspace.com
                        >
                        > An interesting approach -- so long as what one is studying is how faithful
                        or
                        > unfaithful cinematic presentations of Jesus have been to a particular
                        Gospel or
                        > a particular interpretation of it. But I feel compelled to say that it is
                        > absolutely worthless as a tool for uncovering how the quest has actually
                        been
                        > carried out since it began or for familiarizing those who wish to become
                        so with
                        > the methodologies developed and presently employed to investigate, deal
                        with,
                        > and/or get behind the sources for reconstructing the HJ.
                        >
                        > Yours,
                        >
                        > Jeffrey
                        > --
                        > Jeffrey B. Gibson
                        > 7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
                        > Chicago, Illinois 60626
                        > e-mail jgibson000@...
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Jeffrey B. Gibson
                        ... Let s take a step back here. The original request for suggestions on books and syllabi for an HJ course came not from me but from Brian Tucker. More ... In
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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                          gte_enerspace wrote:
                          Please see more at the website on more critical scholarship on the subject.
                          The examination of the cinematic Jesus, was absolutely critical in realizing
                          how influenced most of are of the media and hype surrounding Jesus,
                          particularly as we are growing up.  The demything of Jesus...is the first
                          step, I am afraid, on anyones' adventure and investigation.  You are talking
                          about a first course, aren't you.
                          Let's take a step back here. The original request for suggestions on books and syllabi for an HJ course came not from me but from Brian Tucker. More importantly, he asked for suggestions on material such that  (to quote him) it :
                          (1) Provides an
                          historical overview of the quest. (2) Provides a basic guide to
                          historical research methods, (form criticism, redaction, etc.). (3)
                          Provides bibliography and copious footnotes. (4) Interacts with
                          archaeology and other related disciplines. (5) Provides an even handed
                          overview of the differing current thoughts.


                          In the light of these criteria, indeed, for anyone who wants to become aquatinted with the history of the quest and the options that serious historians have adopted,  I still maintain that watching a series of Jesus films has no value whatsoever. One or two in a course might help a teacher raise some issues, but a whole course devoted to them tells us little more about the HJ than watching Eroll Flynn's *They Dies with their Boots on* tells us about Custer or the methods that historians use in trying to recover and reconstruct the HC. 

                          Moreover, while demythologizing Jesus **might** be a first step towards an interest in investigating the HJ, I think you overstate the case not only that it is the only thing that has or will cause anyone to become interested in engaging in the quest, but that seeing Jesus films -- which actually only serve to remythologize him -- is the best way to go about it. While it may have been so for you, I wonder how far this actually can be universalized? Indeed, I know people for whom particular Jesus films only caused a desire to reaffirm their orthodoxy and become resistant to scholarship..

                          And as to your question:

                           Are you an academic?
                           
                          both Oxford University, which conferred upon me a doctorate, and Loyola University, where I teach, seem to think so -- but don't let it get around. For a brief bio, see the "bios" link at the end of the XTalk home page (www.xtalk.org).

                          Yours,

                          Jeffrey
                          --
                          Jeffrey B. Gibson
                          7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
                          Chicago, Illinois 60626
                          e-mail jgibson000@...
                           

                        • gte_enerspace
                          Sorry, somehow lost the original author of this thread. Was an interesting dialogue, nevertheless. Film criticism is just as important as Form Criticism in
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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                            Sorry, somehow lost the original author of this thread.  Was an interesting dialogue, nevertheless.  Film criticism is just as important as Form Criticism in the quest, which you seem to be hooked on.
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 1:12 PM
                            Subject: [XTalk] Re: Historical Jesus Syllabus

                            gte_enerspace wrote:
                            Please see more at the website on more critical scholarship on the subject.
                            The examination of the cinematic Jesus, was absolutely critical in realizing
                            how influenced most of are of the media and hype surrounding Jesus,
                            particularly as we are growing up.  The demything of Jesus...is the first
                            step, I am afraid, on anyones' adventure and investigation.  You are talking
                            about a first course, aren't you.
                            Let's take a step back here. The original request for suggestions on books and syllabi for an HJ course came not from me but from Brian Tucker. More importantly, he asked for suggestions on material such that  (to quote him) it :
                            (1) Provides an
                            historical overview of the quest. (2) Provides a basic guide to
                            historical research methods, (form criticism, redaction, etc.). (3)
                            Provides bibliography and copious footnotes. (4) Interacts with
                            archaeology and other related disciplines. (5) Provides an even handed
                            overview of the differing current thoughts.


                            In the light of these criteria, indeed, for anyone who wants to become aquatinted with the history of the quest and the options that serious historians have adopted,  I still maintain that watching a series of Jesus films has no value whatsoever. One or two in a course might help a teacher raise some issues, but a whole course devoted to them tells us little more about the HJ than watching Eroll Flynn's *They Dies with their Boots on* tells us about Custer or the methods that historians use in trying to recover and reconstruct the HC. 

                            Moreover, while demythologizing Jesus **might** be a first step towards an interest in investigating the HJ, I think you overstate the case not only that it is the only thing that has or will cause anyone to become interested in engaging in the quest, but that seeing Jesus films -- which actually only serve to remythologize him -- is the best way to go about it. While it may have been so for you, I wonder how far this actually can be universalized? Indeed, I know people for whom particular Jesus films only caused a desire to reaffirm their orthodoxy and become resistant to scholarship..

                            And as to your question:

                             Are you an academic?
                             
                            both Oxford University, which conferred upon me a doctorate, and Loyola University, where I teach, seem to think so -- but don't let it get around. For a brief bio, see the "bios" link at the end of the XTalk home page (www.xtalk.org).

                            Yours,

                            Jeffrey
                            --
                            Jeffrey B. Gibson
                            7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
                            Chicago, Illinois 60626
                            e-mail jgibson000@...
                             


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                          • Jeffrey B. Gibson
                            ... I am rather astounded by this claim. Do you really believe that aesthetic criticism of something (Jesus films) that is often, at best, a third hand
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 4, 1999
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                              gte_enerspace wrote:
                              Sorry, somehow lost the original author of this thread.  Was an interesting dialogue, nevertheless.  Film criticism is just as important as Form Criticism in the quest, which you seem to be hooked on.


                              I am rather astounded by this claim. Do you really believe that aesthetic criticism of something (Jesus films) that is often, at best,  a third hand interpretation (and which usually involves a rather uncareful and eclectic use) of NT and other ancient sources dealing with the HJ, is really on the same order methodologically and from an historiographic point of view as an historical-critical engagement with the sources themselves? Or that King of Kings is of the same historical and evidentiary value as Josephus' _War_? When did KofK become scripture, let alone an ancient source? Should we not then use the Urantia book, or the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ by Levi,  as well?

                              In any case, I'd be grateful if you'd spare me your aphibolistic speculations of what I'm hooked on. I love Jesus films, owning many myself, and having even tried my hand once at making one. But I know enough not to regard them as anything like primary or useful historical evidence for the HJ.

                              Yours,

                              Jeffrey Gibson
                              ---
                              Jeffrey B. Gibson
                              7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
                              Chicago, Illinois 60626
                              e-mail jgibson000@...
                               

                            • Mark Goodacre
                              ... Might I suggest a means by which this debate can be resolved? On the one hand, there are many ways in which the study of Jesus films might help in the
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 6, 1999
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                                On 4 Dec 99, at 19:29, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:

                                > gte_enerspace wrote:
                                >
                                > > Sorry, somehow lost the original author of this thread. Was an
                                > > interesting dialogue, nevertheless. Film criticism is just as
                                > > important as Form Criticism in the quest, which you seem to be hooked
                                > > on.
                                >
                                > I am rather astounded by this claim. Do you really believe that
                                > aesthetic criticism of something (Jesus films) that is often, at best, a
                                > third hand interpretation (and which usually involves a rather uncareful
                                > and eclectic use) of NT and other ancient sources dealing with the HJ, is
                                > really on the same order methodologically and from an historiographic
                                > point of view as an historical-critical engagement with the sources
                                > themselves?

                                Might I suggest a means by which this debate can be resolved? On
                                the one hand, there are many ways in which the study of Jesus films
                                might help "in the quest", as David Beshore affirms, e.g. they stimulate
                                the imagination of the researcher and suggest fresh avenues for
                                investigation by the historian. I use Jesus films in historical Jesus
                                lectures, for example, to encourage students to think through certain
                                themes in Jesus research.

                                On the other hand, Jeffrey is of course correct that Jesus films can in
                                no way be a primary source of information on the historical Jesus.

                                While we are on the topic of Jesus films, I hope I may be excused a
                                little shameless self-publicity. I have recently had an article published
                                in _The Journal of Religion and Film_ entitled "Do You Think You're
                                What They Say You Are? Reflections on Jesus Christ Superstar". It
                                is available electronically at:

                                http://www.unomaha.edu/~wwwjrf/JesusCss.htm

                                Mark
                                --------------------------------------
                                Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                                Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                                University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                                Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

                                http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                                The New Testament Gateway
                                Mark Without Q
                                Aseneth Home Page
                              • Mark Goodacre
                                In addition to all those mentioned, I would want to stress (for the umpteenth time - - sorry everyone) the value of E. P. Sanders & Margaret Davies, _Studying
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 6, 1999
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                                  In addition to all those mentioned, I would want to stress (for the umpteenth time -
                                  - sorry everyone) the value of E. P. Sanders & Margaret Davies, _Studying the
                                  Synoptic Gospels_ because (a) it has the requisite introduction to source & form
                                  criticism etc. for which Brian asked. This is rare in books dealing with the
                                  historical Jesus -- lamentably so -- and (b) it has such a good discussion of the
                                  criteria for doing Jesus research, ideally pitched for the beginning student. I
                                  recommend this book for students on my own Jesus course.

                                  Also not mentioned so far is C. J. Den Heyer's _Jesus Matters_ (ET, London:
                                  SCM, 1996), again an ideal student introduction. If it helps, I have a brief on the
                                  web, reproduced from an article I wrote in RRT in 1997,
                                  http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre/revnt1.htm#den Heyer

                                  Mark
                                  --------------------------------------
                                  Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                                  Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                                  University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                                  Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

                                  http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                                  The New Testament Gateway
                                  Mark Without Q
                                  Aseneth Home Page
                                • Gail Dawson
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 8, 1999
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                                    > Brian, you may want to check out the following resources for syllabi if
                                    > someone hasn't directed you to them already:
                                    >
                                    > The AAR Syllabi Project web site has a collection of syllabi, some of
                                    > which are pertinent to the study of the Historical Jesus and Christian
                                    > origins--go to this link and look under "Christian Origins":
                                    > http://www.wlu.ca/~wwwaar/course_syllabi.html
                                    >
                                    > Additionally, the following link on the AAR page will take you to
                                    > additional resources on the Web for locating religious studies syllabi
                                    > (but you'll have to scan through them to find ones that pertain
                                    > specifically to the Historical Jesus):
                                    >
                                    > http://www.wlu.ca/~wwwaar/syllabi_online.html
                                    >
                                    > The AAR home page is at this link: http://www.aar-site.org/
                                    >
                                    > Hope this helps,
                                    >
                                    > Gail Dawson
                                    > Edinburg, Va.
                                  • Mark Goodacre
                                    One or two new web resources may be of interest to the list. John P. Meier has a most interesting article on The Present State of the ‘Third Quest’ for
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 8, 1999
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                                      One or two new web resources may be of interest to the list. John P. Meier has a
                                      most interesting article on "The Present State of the ‘Third Quest’ for the
                                      Historical Jesus" in the current issue of the now on-line Biblica:

                                      http://www.bsw.org/project/biblica/bibl80/Comm11.htm

                                      (Good to see that he mentions Steve Davies's book in his section on the
                                      importance of healing, though no discussion of it).

                                      I have also recently added a section on "Women & Gender" to my NT Gateway,
                                      address at:

                                      http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre/links.htm

                                      Mark




                                      --------------------------------------
                                      Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                                      Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                                      University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                                      Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

                                      http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                                      The New Testament Gateway
                                      Mark Without Q
                                      Aseneth Home Page
                                    • Dennis C. Duling
                                      This past semester I tried Theissen on my undergraduates. Their first exam was horrible; their second exam was quite good. However, I have worked about as hard
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 9, 1999
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                                        This past semester I tried Theissen on my undergraduates. Their first
                                        exam was horrible; their second exam was quite good. However, I have
                                        worked about as hard as I ever have on a course -- a lot of it
                                        explaining Theissen. The translation at points needs some improvement,
                                        too. So I would say that it is only for the bold and very ambitious, as
                                        far as an undergraduate text goes.
                                        I'll go back to a simpler text for my undergraduates. W. Barnes Tatum
                                        has a new edition of his little classic out, and I'll try it next time,
                                        along with one of the newer general books on Jesus, perhaps D. Allison
                                        or B. Ehrman on the apocalyptic-millennial side and s.t. from the
                                        Q-Thomas axis on the other side (Crossan), or perhaps (again) Borg. If
                                        my course evaluations should prove me wrong, I'll let you know.


                                        dd

                                        Mark Goodacre wrote:
                                        >
                                        > In addition to all those mentioned, I would want to stress (for the umpteenth time -
                                        > - sorry everyone) the value of E. P. Sanders & Margaret Davies, _Studying the
                                        > Synoptic Gospels_ because (a) it has the requisite introduction to source & form
                                        > criticism etc. for which Brian asked. This is rare in books dealing with the
                                        > historical Jesus -- lamentably so -- and (b) it has such a good discussion of the
                                        > criteria for doing Jesus research, ideally pitched for the beginning student. I
                                        > recommend this book for students on my own Jesus course.
                                        >
                                        > Also not mentioned so far is C. J. Den Heyer's _Jesus Matters_ (ET, London:
                                        > SCM, 1996), again an ideal student introduction. If it helps, I have a brief on the
                                        > web, reproduced from an article I wrote in RRT in 1997,
                                        > http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre/revnt1.htm#den Heyer
                                        >
                                        > Mark
                                        > --------------------------------------
                                        > Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                                        > Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                                        > University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                                        > Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom
                                        >
                                        > http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                                        > The New Testament Gateway
                                        > Mark Without Q
                                        > Aseneth Home Page
                                        >
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                                      • Mark Goodacre
                                        ... Thanks for the interesting feedback. I begin a course on Jesus research after Christmas and am contemplating using Theissen & Merz a bit, so this is
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Dec 10, 1999
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                                          On 9 Dec 99, at 14:12, Dennis C. Duling wrote:

                                          > This past semester I tried Theissen on my undergraduates. Their first exam
                                          > was horrible; their second exam was quite good. However, I have worked
                                          > about as hard as I ever have on a course -- a lot of it explaining
                                          > Theissen. The translation at points needs some improvement, too. So I
                                          > would say that it is only for the bold and very ambitious, as far as an
                                          > undergraduate text goes. I'll go back to a simpler text for my
                                          > undergraduates. W. Barnes Tatum has a new edition of his little classic
                                          > out, and I'll try it next time, along with one of the newer general books
                                          > on Jesus, perhaps D. Allison or B. Ehrman on the apocalyptic-millennial
                                          > side and s.t. from the Q-Thomas axis on the other side (Crossan), or
                                          > perhaps (again) Borg. If my course evaluations should prove me wrong, I'll
                                          > let you know.

                                          Thanks for the interesting feedback. I begin a course on Jesus
                                          research after Christmas and am contemplating using Theissen &
                                          Merz a bit, so this is useful to know. But I'll use a variety of key texts,
                                          Sanders, Sanders & Davies, den Heyer, Crossan, Fredriksen,
                                          perhaps Powell as well as Theissen & Merz. For another recent
                                          (fairly positive) review of Theissen & Merz, see the recent one in the
                                          SBL Review of Biblical Literature by James Robinson:

                                          http://www.bookreviews.org/Reviews/0800631234.html

                                          Mark
                                          --------------------------------------
                                          Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                                          Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                                          University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                                          Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

                                          http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                                          The New Testament Gateway
                                          All-in-One Biblical Resources Search
                                          Mark Without Q
                                          Aseneth Home Page
                                        • Dennis C. Duling
                                          Many thanks. I reviewed it in Bible Review, though my review was considerably edited down by the editors. dd
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Dec 13, 1999
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                                            Many thanks. I reviewed it in Bible Review, though my review was
                                            considerably edited down by the editors.
                                            dd

                                            Mark Goodacre wrote:
                                            >
                                            > On 9 Dec 99, at 14:12, Dennis C. Duling wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > This past semester I tried Theissen on my undergraduates. Their first exam
                                            > > was horrible; their second exam was quite good. However, I have worked
                                            > > about as hard as I ever have on a course -- a lot of it explaining
                                            > > Theissen. The translation at points needs some improvement, too. So I
                                            > > would say that it is only for the bold and very ambitious, as far as an
                                            > > undergraduate text goes. I'll go back to a simpler text for my
                                            > > undergraduates. W. Barnes Tatum has a new edition of his little classic
                                            > > out, and I'll try it next time, along with one of the newer general books
                                            > > on Jesus, perhaps D. Allison or B. Ehrman on the apocalyptic-millennial
                                            > > side and s.t. from the Q-Thomas axis on the other side (Crossan), or
                                            > > perhaps (again) Borg. If my course evaluations should prove me wrong, I'll
                                            > > let you know.
                                            >
                                            > Thanks for the interesting feedback. I begin a course on Jesus
                                            > research after Christmas and am contemplating using Theissen &
                                            > Merz a bit, so this is useful to know. But I'll use a variety of key texts,
                                            > Sanders, Sanders & Davies, den Heyer, Crossan, Fredriksen,
                                            > perhaps Powell as well as Theissen & Merz. For another recent
                                            > (fairly positive) review of Theissen & Merz, see the recent one in the
                                            > SBL Review of Biblical Literature by James Robinson:
                                            >
                                            > http://www.bookreviews.org/Reviews/0800631234.html
                                            >
                                            > Mark
                                            > --------------------------------------
                                            > Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
                                            > Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
                                            > University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
                                            > Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom
                                            >
                                            > http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
                                            > The New Testament Gateway
                                            > All-in-One Biblical Resources Search
                                            > Mark Without Q
                                            > Aseneth Home Page
                                            >
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