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Two questions related to Mark & Luke's trial scene‏

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  • Ed
    If I may ask, what is the exact difference in the covering over Jesus head/eyes in Mark and Luke? Mark says head covered, Luke says blindfold. Is there any
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 12, 2012
      If I may ask, what is the exact difference in the covering over Jesus' head/eyes in Mark and Luke? Mark says head covered, Luke says blindfold. Is there any definitive difference based on the Greek terms used?

      And how common was it for the accused to have their head or eyes covered when brought before a Jewish court?

      If know of any scholars or books that might contain the answers to such questions please let me know!

      Thanks very much.
    • Jack Kilmon
      ... From: Ed Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:09 PM To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com Subject: [XTalk] Two questions related to Mark & Luke s trial scene‏ If I
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 12, 2012
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ed
        Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:09 PM
        To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [XTalk] Two questions related to Mark & Luke's trial scene‏

        If I may ask, what is the exact difference in the covering over Jesus'
        head/eyes in Mark and Luke? Mark says head covered, Luke says blindfold. Is
        there any definitive difference based on the Greek terms used?

        And how common was it for the accused to have their head or eyes covered
        when brought before a Jewish court?

        If know of any scholars or books that might contain the answers to such
        questions please let me know!

        Thanks very much.


        Please sign your posts, Ed. I have never accepted the Sanhedrin trial of
        Jesus for several reasons. They would not have met on an erev Pesach nor on
        such short notice. Had they met, they would have exonerated Jesus since he
        did not commit blasphemy. It was not blasphemy by the Halakhah of the time
        to call oneself Bar D'alaha. It would not have been blasphemy to claim to
        be the Mashiach, which I don't think he ever did. I don't think a defendant
        at a beyt din gathering would be blindfolded since, according to the law,
        the defendant faces at least two accusers. Qayaffa wanted Yeshua out of the
        way because he was fearful of brutal Roman reprisals against the people and
        the Temple. I think John 11:50 and 18:14 are historical. I think the
        so-called Jewish trial was just Qayaffa, his father-in-law and a few
        Sadducee elites. I think Pilatus was already on board.

        Regards,
        Jack kilmon
        Houston, TX
      • Matson, Mark (Academic)
        Ed: Your question is the grammatical difference? Both Mark and Luke use the same verb, perikaluptein... Mark as an infinitive and Luke as a participle. Mark
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 13, 2012
          Ed:

          Your question is the grammatical difference? Both Mark and Luke use the same verb, perikaluptein... Mark as an infinitive and Luke as a participle. Mark adds an object to the verb... "covered his face". Luke has no modifier, so literally it is simply "when they covered him;" our translations conclude blindfold, which is probably a good guess as the the meaning.

          I might simply note that the "covering" or blindfolding is not portrayed as part of the trial, but rather as part of the mocking that follows (it provides a basis for the taunt "prophecy: who is it that struck you?", which appears very odd in Matthew without any account of a covering of the eyes). The bigger difference I see is that Luke puts this taunting before a hearing with the elders; but then in Luke there really isn't a "trial" anyway is there? No testimony, no charge. It appears the decision is already made (just like in John, but John doesn't even bother describing any hearing befor the high priest at all).

          I'm not aware of any reference to eyes covered before a jewish court... but then, as I said, these seem to be separate from any "trial" (if indeed there is even one being portrayed).

          Mark A. Matson
          Milligan College
          http://www.milligan.edu/administrative/mmatson/personal.htm
          ________________________________________
          From: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com [crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ed [ebabinski2002@...]
          Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 3:09 PM
          To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [XTalk] Two questions related to Mark & Luke's trial scene‏

          If I may ask, what is the exact difference in the covering over Jesus' head/eyes in Mark and Luke? Mark says head covered, Luke says blindfold. Is there any definitive difference based on the Greek terms used?

          And how common was it for the accused to have their head or eyes covered when brought before a Jewish court?

          If know of any scholars or books that might contain the answers to such questions please let me know!

          Thanks very much.
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