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[crosstalk2] Re: Greek translators needed!

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  • Bernard Muller
    Bernard Muller wrote: First, I want to thank Ian and Joe about their help on my previously requested translations from Josephus Antiquities. Knowledge of
    Message 1 of 2 , May 24, 1999
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      Bernard Muller wrote:

      First, I want to thank Ian and Joe about their help on my previously
      requested translations from Josephus' Antiquities.
      Knowledge of ancient Greek is beneficial considering translations can
      be biased and/or misleading.
      Then, I would like to be helped on a passage from Eusebius' The
      History of the Church, Book I, 12. After quoting the debated
      Testimonium Flavianum, Eusebius wrote as part of his comments "When a
      historian sprung from the Hebrews has furnished in his own writing an
      almost contemporary record of John the Baptist and our Saviour too".
      This is a translation, possibly not a correct one (there are different
      others!).
      My question is as follows: can a Greek scholar give me a translation
      which is literal, to the point and with no bias on that particular
      passage? does *record* (with no 's') show in the Greek?
      Another one for your consideration:
      What would be the most literal translation for the title of Book I,
      section 11, of the same "The History of the Church"?
      Thank you in advance.
      Bernard

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    • David C. Hindley
      Message text written by INTERNET:crosstalk2@egroups.com ... requested translations from Josephus Antiquities. Knowledge of ancient Greek is beneficial
      Message 2 of 2 , May 25, 1999
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        Message text written by INTERNET:crosstalk2@egroups.com

        >>First, I want to thank Ian and Joe about their help on my previously
        requested translations from Josephus' Antiquities.
        Knowledge of ancient Greek is beneficial considering translations can
        be biased and/or misleading.
        Then, I would like to be helped on a passage from Eusebius' The
        History of the Church, Book I, 12. After quoting the debated
        Testimonium Flavianum, Eusebius wrote as part of his comments "When a
        historian sprung from the Hebrews has furnished in his own writing an
        almost contemporary record of John the Baptist and our Saviour too".
        This is a translation, possibly not a correct one (there are different
        others!).

        My question is as follows: can a Greek scholar give me a translation
        which is literal, to the point and with no bias on that particular
        passage? does *record* (with no 's') show in the Greek?
        Another one for your consideration:
        What would be the most literal translation for the title of Book I,
        section 11, of the same "The History of the Church"?
        Thank you in advance.<<

        Bernard,

        It appears as though the translation found in the Loeb edition is correct
        enough:

        "When a writer sprung from the Hebrews themselves handed on in his own
        writing these details concerning John the Baptist and our Saviour, what
        alternative is there but to convict of shamelessness those who have
        concocted the Reports about them?"

        In short, your "record" looks to be "graphE(i)" which is singular. The
        second "Records" (in the Loeb translation) is a technical term
        (hupomnEmata) for official Acts that Roman officials recorded of their
        activities. This latter reference is more than likely related to "Memoirs
        of Pilate" published by the co-emperor Maximin in 311 CE (which Eusebius
        mentioned in Book I section 9, and also mentions in Book IX section 5), in
        which "the time of the savior's suffering" occurred in the year 21 CE,
        which led Eusebius to conclude that they were forged.

        Dave Hindley

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