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Jews? Re: [XTalk] The Jesus movement before the NT

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  • Bob Schacht
    ... And also, considering the season, isn t this when we re told that when Mary was in a city of Galilee named Nazareth, (Luke 1:26), she was told that she
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 15, 2011
      At 08:38 AM 12/15/2011, Mark Goodacre wrote:
      >Well, as early as our evidence takes us for the Jesus movement, we have
      >Galileans like Peter being called Jew / Judean (Gal. 2.14); indeed, Paul's
      >argument apparently pivots around Peter (Cephas) being a Jew / Judean.
      > Cheers, Mark

      And also, considering the season, isn't this when we're told that
      when Mary was in a city of Galilee named Nazareth,
      (Luke 1:26), she was told that she would become pregnant by
      the Holy Spirit, etc. etc. But then Luke tells us (2:1-4) that they
      are supposed to go to Bethlehem to be enrolled.

      But at the time, Nazareth and Bethlehem were in two different
      political juristictions. How come Joe and Mary have to go to
      Bethlehem to be enrolled? Why couldn't Joe just go to Sepphoris to be
      enrolled, and identify his place of birth as Bethlehem? Are we
      dealing with some kind of cross-border collaboration? Something
      doesn't make sense here.


      Bob Schacht
      Flagstaff, AZ




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • david cook
      Surely, if we accept the in the days of Herod (i.e. the Great) dating, for teh sake of argument, then Gaileand Judaea are both in Herod s kingdom, a single
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 16, 2011
        Surely, if we accept the "in the days of Herod" (i.e. the Great) dating, for teh sake of argument, then Gaileand Judaea are both in Herod's kingdom, a single jurisdiction. It's only when we correct the story - to make the census seem more `sensible' that we put it under Archelaus or after his fall. Or have I missed something obvious?
        David Cook




        To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
        From: r_schacht@...
        Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 13:54:41 -0700
        Subject: Jews? Re: [XTalk] The Jesus movement before the NT






        At 08:38 AM 12/15/2011, Mark Goodacre wrote:
        >Well, as early as our evidence takes us for the Jesus movement, we have
        >Galileans like Peter being called Jew / Judean (Gal. 2.14); indeed, Paul's
        >argument apparently pivots around Peter (Cephas) being a Jew / Judean.
        > Cheers, Mark

        And also, considering the season, isn't this when we're told that
        when Mary was in a city of Galilee named Nazareth,
        (Luke 1:26), she was told that she would become pregnant by
        the Holy Spirit, etc. etc. But then Luke tells us (2:1-4) that they
        are supposed to go to Bethlehem to be enrolled.

        But at the time, Nazareth and Bethlehem were in two different
        political juristictions. How come Joe and Mary have to go to
        Bethlehem to be enrolled? Why couldn't Joe just go to Sepphoris to be
        enrolled, and identify his place of birth as Bethlehem? Are we
        dealing with some kind of cross-border collaboration? Something
        doesn't make sense here.

        Bob Schacht
        Flagstaff, AZ

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Mealand
        Wasn t Galilee ruled from Jerusalem at least from the time of Alexander Jannaeus and so presumably part of the state of Judah long before Herod? David M. ...
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 16, 2011
          Wasn't Galilee ruled from Jerusalem at least
          from the time of Alexander Jannaeus and so
          presumably part of the state of Judah long
          before Herod?

          David M.


          ---------
          David Mealand, University of Edinburgh


          --
          The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
          Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
        • Thomas L. Thompson
          The region of Iturea in the Galilee, from Beth Shan (Scythopolis) to Giscala was, according to Josephus, annexed by Aristobolus in 104-103 BCE. The region was
          Message 4 of 4 , Dec 16, 2011
            The region of Iturea in the Galilee, from Beth Shan (Scythopolis) to Giscala was, according to Josephus, annexed by Aristobolus in 104-103 BCE. The region was converted to Judaism by force. "Jewishness" and Judaism, in the wake of Hyrcanus's supersessionist expansion come to designate religious not geographic or political associations. That Luke appears to want to have his cake and eat it too is rooted in Old Testament messianic tropes. They are what bring Joseph and the shepherds to Matthew's Bethlehem.

            Sincerely,
            Thomas

            Thomas L. Thompson
            Professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen .

            ________________________________________
            Fra: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com [crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af david cook [senor_aardvaark@...]
            Sendt: 16. december 2011 09:08
            Til: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
            Emne: RE: Jews? Re: [XTalk] The Jesus movement before the NT

            Surely, if we accept the "in the days of Herod" (i.e. the Great) dating, for teh sake of argument, then Gaileand Judaea are both in Herod's kingdom, a single jurisdiction. It's only when we correct the story - to make the census seem more `sensible' that we put it under Archelaus or after his fall. Or have I missed something obvious?
            David Cook




            To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
            From: r_schacht@...
            Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 13:54:41 -0700
            Subject: Jews? Re: [XTalk] The Jesus movement before the NT






            At 08:38 AM 12/15/2011, Mark Goodacre wrote:
            >Well, as early as our evidence takes us for the Jesus movement, we have
            >Galileans like Peter being called Jew / Judean (Gal. 2.14); indeed, Paul's
            >argument apparently pivots around Peter (Cephas) being a Jew / Judean.
            > Cheers, Mark

            And also, considering the season, isn't this when we're told that
            when Mary was in a city of Galilee named Nazareth,
            (Luke 1:26), she was told that she would become pregnant by
            the Holy Spirit, etc. etc. But then Luke tells us (2:1-4) that they
            are supposed to go to Bethlehem to be enrolled.

            But at the time, Nazareth and Bethlehem were in two different
            political juristictions. How come Joe and Mary have to go to
            Bethlehem to be enrolled? Why couldn't Joe just go to Sepphoris to be
            enrolled, and identify his place of birth as Bethlehem? Are we
            dealing with some kind of cross-border collaboration? Something
            doesn't make sense here.

            Bob Schacht
            Flagstaff, AZ

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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