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RE: Price Re: [XTalk] The Jesus movement before the NT

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  • Dennis Goffin
    What then, Bob, did first generation followers of Jesus make of his significance and why?Dennis ... Dennis Goffin Chorleywood UK To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 73 , Dec 9, 2011
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      What then, Bob, did first generation followers of Jesus make of his significance and why?Dennis
      ---------------------

      Dennis Goffin

      Chorleywood UK To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com
      From: r_schacht@...
      Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 09:11:30 -0700
      Subject: Price Re: [XTalk] The Jesus movement before the NT




























      At 12:59 PM 12/8/2011, Ronald Price wrote:

      >Dennis Goffin wrote:

      >

      > > You say "Jesus was recognized as the Jewish Messiah." What in

      > your view were

      > > the reasons why, and to what in the Hebrew Bible and/or the

      > intertestamental

      > > literature did he correspond in order to enable that recognition ?

      >

      >Dennis,

      >

      >It's a good question, but I don't yet have a clear view of what

      >first-century Jews would have thought of the role of the Messiah, nor of the

      >specific sources on which their views would have been based. It's really a

      >question for someone who knows ancient Judaism much better than I do.

      >

      >That said, I have today borrowed a library book which may have the answer.

      >It is "How Jesus became Christian", by a Canadian Professor of Humanities

      >and Religious Studies, Barrie Wilson. He writes that the clearest exposition

      >of the idea is to be found in the Psalms of Solomon. The Messiah must

      >overthrow foreign rule, establish an independent Jewish state, be a Davidic

      >king, and usher in universal peace, establishing the kingdom of God.



      Ron,

      It strikes me that the very concept of your treasured book is


      misplaced. I would not have even opened that book. The question in

      the title seems to me preposterous on its face: How could Jesus

      become something that did not yet exist? Furthermore, in your

      explication of the book, you seem to be interested in a different

      question than the one suggested by the title of the book: your focus

      is on how Jesus became the Messiah, rather than how he became a

      Christian. It seems to me that if Jesus had any concept of being the

      Messiah, it was his intention to be a Jewish messiah.



      Whether he intended to be a Jewish messiah, ISTM, is not well

      established. An intention to gather the lost sheep of Israel points

      to a prophetic calling, not necessarily a messiahship.



      I view the whole messiah issue as one that mainly concerned second

      generation followers of Jesus as they sought to understand the

      meaning of his life, death, and resurrection. It was an

      interpretation that grew among people who searched their holy

      writings to understand what had happened. It may even have been a

      rationalization by the followers of Jesus.



      Bob Schacht

      Northern Arizona University



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Mealand
      This topic ran for a while back in January. I have just seen a review of a book on Philo which gives particular attention to Philo s use of some passages from
      Message 73 of 73 , Feb 16, 2012
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        This topic ran for a while back in January.

        I have just seen a review of a book on Philo
        which gives particular attention to Philo's
        use of some passages from the haftarot which, it is
        argued, match part of a later cycle of such readings.
        Naomi Cohen, Philo's Scriptures ... (Brill 2007) is
        the book, and a very interesting and detailed review
        of it by Tzvee Zahavy is in Review of Rabbinic
        Judaism 15 (2012) 133-136.

        David M.







        ---------
        David Mealand, University of Edinburgh


        --
        The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
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